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   Nuovo Ordine Mondiale e società segrete
   Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione?

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  •  Makk
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Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione?
#1
Mi sento vacillare
Iscritto il: 9/12/2009
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@ mc
OK. Ma anche il resto non me lo ritrovo.

Citazione:

mc ha scritto:
Citazione:
soggettivamente è un peso immane e che sai che pagherai (a meno di non essere emotivamente un vegetale

Questa affermazione e' una palese forzatura :
prima di tutto, e' un giudizio personale che non ha implicazioni oggettive.

Non è un giudizio su qualcuno, intanto.
Dico solo: una scelta atroce. La donna che farà quella scelta starà anche subendo il fatto di essersi trovata all'angolo e doverla fare.
Se poi è un pezzo di ghiaccio, si farà scivolare di dosso questo terribile episodio, se è un normale essere umano se lo porterà dietro per sempre con la sua valenza (= di terribile episodio).

Non vedo il giudizio personale.
Cerco di capire:
A meno che per personale (diciamo "arbitrario") tu non intenda che è opinabile che il feto sia "vita".
Per me è senz'altro una qualche forma di vita. Anche se sono le 4 cellule di un'ovulo fecondato allo stadio della seconda mitosi, è comunque una forma di vita.

Spegnere quella forma di vita è ammissibile per legge fino a un certo di stadio della sua evoluzione. Il che è ancora una volta orribile: i 90 giorni sono sia troppi che troppo pochi, da caso a caso, e quello dei 90gg è un "paletto" disumano, necessario per tanti motivi, non tutti edificanti.

Mia opinione è che la donna (tranne casi di scarsa sensibilità individuale - come ho già distinto) sente comunque il peso di essersi strappata la vita di dentro. Non capisco come si possa pensare che non è così ma attendo confutazioni.
Lo stadio di evoluzione di quella vita è emotivamente poco rilevante ("emotivamente" = diverso da "giuridicamente") rispetto a come lo vive la donna. Sempre vita è. Sempre a decidere di spegnerla si arriva. Sempre decisione atroce è.

Il fatto che "ognuno ha un concetto diverso di vita", per me diviene rilevante solo se qualcuno fa [quello che io ritengo] un errore concettuale: si appella al fatto che si tratta di una vita (corretto) per mescolare le carte fra "vita" e "essere umano" (sbagliato, quando non in malafede).
Allora ecco che si va giù di opinabilissime dissertazioni sul fatto che per Tizio la vita diventa "umana" da qui in poi e per Caio quel confine si sposta più in là (o più in qua).

Questi distinguo e sottigliezze li trovo poco puntuali (ma anche: insopportabili).

Per me c'è una legge che freddamente stabilisce quell'orribile confine ("vita" vs. "vita tutelabile").
Ci sono persone che vorrebbero spostare quel confine con argomenti (da ambo i lati della barricata) del tutto a-scientifici, arbitrari e altrettanto disumani della legge.
E poi ci sono le donne che vorrebbero che ci fossero le condizioni per fare a meno di una legge così disumana. Sono ragionevolmente certo che a loro del "confine" non glie ne frega niente: non vorrebbero proprio essere in una società dove le donne arrivano ad abortire. Ma invece una società dove la vita è tutelata realmente... in tutti gli aspetti, certo, ma soprattutto nel diritto ad essere madre.
Per loro, il dibattito su cosa è o non è vita, non è "opinabile": è "nauseante" [mia opinione, sempre].

Citazione:
Voglio dire, e' pressoche' stato stabilito che ognuno ha un suo modo di intendere la vita, per cui le implicazioni dipendono da questo, non dal tuo giudizio sulla cosa Makk, concordi spero.

Ma io dissento proprio alla radice!
Non concordo che le implicazioni su "cosa è la vita" siano rilevanti o produttive rispetto al ragionamento su "aborto sì/aborto no".
La gara a dimostrare che l'aborto è (o non è) orribile, che la vita è (o non è) umana, che la vita "tutelabile" comincia a 3 minuti dal concepimento o col primo vagito, sono una sconfitta per chi ci si misura.
E una sconfitta per la donna... (ma lei sta cazzo di legge "se la gode", quindi è "fonte sospetta" nel dibattito )

Più chiaro:
L'aborto è orribile. La sconfitta è che si è resa necessaria una legge sull'interruzione di gravidanza.
La vita non sarà "umana" ma alla madre non interessa, questo. La sconfitta è che delibera di spegnerla per carenza di alternative.
La tutela legale dello Stato sul frutto del grembo femminile è disumana. La sconfitta è che si è dovuti arrivare a una disciplina per codicilli e commi, e che la devi pure chiamare "conquista".


Non vedo come, in tutto ciò, io abbia fatto appello al fatto che la donna si debba sentire in colpa. Io ho opinato che ci si sentirà punto-e-basta.
Io opino che non starà lì a fare i ragionamenti sottili su "oh beh, abortire prima che si formino le manine e si metta il pollice in bocca significa che non è umano", oppure "beh, se la legge me lo permette vuol dire che si può fare", oppure "sto a posto! Ce l'ho fatta entro l'89° giorno... evvài!"

Secondo me soffrirà sempre e comunque.

A me sembra di empatizzare con la donna e con quello che la coscienza le imporrà come scotto da pagare per essere ricorsa all'IVG. Non mi risulta di aver auspicato sofferenze psicologiche a suo carico.

Constato. Magari mi sbaglio.





Ma cattolico cce sarai: tu e tutto er condommigno tuo




p.s.:
sulla Cassazione, l'ho messo in quel mio post ma non intendevo affatto riferirmi a te, non avevo obiezioni al tuo intervento in materia.
Non avevo fatto caso che ne avevi parlato anche tu nello stesso post in cui mi dai del gesuita latente.
Mi sono accorto solo dopo (quando hai puntualizzato) che sembrava una replica a te.

In pratica avevo messo in canna la risposta su quella sentenza, stavo pulendo la tastiera e mi è partito un messaggio
Inviato il: 13/11/2010 15:20
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     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? sitchinite 25/10/2010 7:50
       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 25/10/2010 22:05
         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? temponauta 25/10/2010 22:19
           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Paxtibi 25/10/2010 22:33
             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? gronda85 26/10/2010 0:13
         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? gronda85 26/10/2010 1:19
           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 26/10/2010 3:50
             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 26/10/2010 9:27
               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 26/10/2010 15:48
                 ui mc 26/10/2010 18:03
                   Re: ui benitoche 26/10/2010 18:32
                     Re: ui temponauta 26/10/2010 18:36
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           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 26/10/2010 3:59
             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? sitchinite 26/10/2010 8:33
               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 26/10/2010 9:28
                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? temponauta 26/10/2010 11:29
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         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? sitchinite 26/10/2010 20:35
           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 26/10/2010 23:10
             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Paxtibi 26/10/2010 23:33
               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 26/10/2010 23:45
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                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Paxtibi 27/10/2010 7:42
                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 27/10/2010 16:01
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                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 27/10/2010 18:03
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                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 28/10/2010 18:04
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                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 16:49
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? dr_julius 4/11/2010 19:26
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 5/11/2010 1:26
                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 5/11/2010 2:51
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 5/11/2010 3:02
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 5/11/2010 14:59
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 5/11/2010 3:50
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 5/11/2010 11:12
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 5/11/2010 13:02
                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 5/11/2010 15:22
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Santaruina 5/11/2010 16:25
                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 5/11/2010 16:33
                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Santaruina 5/11/2010 16:49
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 5/11/2010 17:09
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 5/11/2010 17:15
                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 5/11/2010 17:24
                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 5/11/2010 17:36
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 5/11/2010 17:44
                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 5/11/2010 18:23
                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 5/11/2010 19:58
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 5/11/2010 18:58
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 5/11/2010 20:32
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                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 5/11/2010 21:51
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 5/11/2010 23:01
                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 6/11/2010 16:40
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 8/11/2010 9:07
                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 11/11/2010 3:40
                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 8/11/2010 10:56
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                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 8/11/2010 16:44
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                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 12/11/2010 21:20
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 15/11/2010 0:47
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 15/11/2010 16:37
                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 15/11/2010 19:45
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 16/11/2010 16:31
                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 17/11/2010 8:21
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 17/11/2010 9:10
                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 17/11/2010 11:17
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 17/11/2010 15:20
                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 18/11/2010 9:30
                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 20/11/2010 13:36
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 26/11/2010 9:32
                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 29/11/2010 4:28
                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 29/11/2010 9:37
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 29/11/2010 13:24
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 29/11/2010 17:19
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 29/11/2010 18:56
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 29/11/2010 19:11
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 29/11/2010 22:57
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 30/11/2010 19:30
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 30/11/2010 22:04
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 30/11/2010 23:51
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 1/12/2010 14:51
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 1/12/2010 16:02
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 2/12/2010 16:17
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 2/12/2010 17:43
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 2/12/2010 17:58
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 2/12/2010 23:53
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 3/12/2010 13:39
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 3/12/2010 21:26
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 4/12/2010 2:18
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 4/12/2010 20:22
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 1/12/2010 0:05
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 1/12/2010 0:53
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 30/11/2010 13:27
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? captcha 30/11/2010 14:24
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 30/11/2010 16:04
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 30/11/2010 19:41
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 29/11/2010 18:57
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 28/11/2010 16:53
                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 28/11/2010 17:25
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 13/11/2010 1:31
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 13/11/2010 15:20
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 15/11/2010 12:55
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 15/11/2010 14:28
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 15/11/2010 15:29
                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 15/11/2010 20:30
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 16/11/2010 19:08
                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 16/11/2010 21:25
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 17/11/2010 14:53
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 18/11/2010 19:19
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 24/11/2010 16:37
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 24/11/2010 19:04
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 24/11/2010 22:27
                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 25/11/2010 11:04
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                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 26/11/2010 23:51
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mirco 28/11/2010 13:17
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 28/11/2010 16:34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 29/11/2010 4:37
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 1/12/2010 20:12
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 4/12/2010 10:34
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 7/12/2010 18:26
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 13/12/2010 10:24
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? LoneWolf58 13/12/2010 11:19
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 13/12/2010 16:55
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 14/12/2010 18:31
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 17/12/2010 8:02
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 19/12/2010 4:03
                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 25/11/2010 11:48
                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 25/11/2010 12:58
                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 11/11/2010 11:29
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                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 11/11/2010 14:11
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 11/11/2010 14:49
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 11/11/2010 14:57
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 8/11/2010 12:45
                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 8/11/2010 13:33
                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 8/11/2010 13:43
                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? dr_julius 5/11/2010 21:54
                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 5/11/2010 23:10
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 5/11/2010 23:37
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 6/11/2010 10:40
                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 6/11/2010 9:58
                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 6/11/2010 11:07
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 6/11/2010 16:03
                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 6/11/2010 16:55
                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 6/11/2010 17:06
                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 8/11/2010 9:15
                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 8/11/2010 10:03
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 8/11/2010 10:24
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 8/11/2010 10:40
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 8/11/2010 17:15
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 11/11/2010 4:02
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 11/11/2010 9:22
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 11/11/2010 16:43
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 11/11/2010 18:40
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 12/11/2010 3:39
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 12/11/2010 3:16
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 6/11/2010 17:17
                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 6/11/2010 20:13
                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 6/11/2010 21:31
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 6/11/2010 23:15
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 7/11/2010 0:27
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 7/11/2010 1:50
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 7/11/2010 16:48
                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? astro7 7/11/2010 18:04
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                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 7/11/2010 23:36
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 8/11/2010 4:14
                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 8/11/2010 14:33
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 11/11/2010 0:07
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 8/11/2010 8:40
                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 4/11/2010 15:03
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 4/11/2010 15:45
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 4/11/2010 15:48
                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 4/11/2010 16:04
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 4/11/2010 16:06
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 16:06
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 4/11/2010 16:19
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 16:22
                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 4/11/2010 17:13
                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 16:30
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 16:35
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 16:38
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 4/11/2010 16:46
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 16:53
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 16:58
                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 4/11/2010 17:16
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 17:35
                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 4/11/2010 18:01
                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 19:48
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 16:04
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 1:34
                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 20:51
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 3/11/2010 15:56
                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 3/11/2010 16:43
                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 20:30
                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 2/11/2010 20:48
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 21:16
                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 3/11/2010 0:10
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 3/11/2010 15:11
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 1:28
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                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 4/11/2010 2:56
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 4/11/2010 3:02
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                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 4/11/2010 7:10
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 14:56
                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Spiderman 4/11/2010 15:05
                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 4/11/2010 10:01
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                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 4/11/2010 11:02
                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 4/11/2010 16:08
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 16:20
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 4/11/2010 17:49
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 17:56
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 18:38
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 4/11/2010 19:19
                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 21:21
                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 21:48
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 19:19
                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 4/11/2010 21:54
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 5/11/2010 0:42
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 4/11/2010 19:27
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 4/11/2010 13:55
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 4/11/2010 14:18
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 3/11/2010 9:10
                                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 3/11/2010 16:53
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 3/11/2010 18:13
                                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? florizel 2/11/2010 18:02
                                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 2/11/2010 19:36
                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 2/11/2010 14:28
                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 2/11/2010 16:38
                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 3/11/2010 18:13
                                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pispax 4/11/2010 3:56
                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 2/11/2010 4:35
                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 2/11/2010 6:03
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                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? effeviemme 2/11/2010 9:23
                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 14:23
                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 2/11/2010 8:31
                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 2/11/2010 8:43
                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 2/11/2010 9:02
                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 13:48
                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 2/11/2010 17:20
                                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 20:29
                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 13:57
                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 2/11/2010 3:52
                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 2/11/2010 3:55
                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 4:34
                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 2/11/2010 5:41
                                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 2/11/2010 17:55
                                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 20:44
                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 23:53
                                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 3/11/2010 9:08
                                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 2/11/2010 8:24
                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? effeviemme 2/11/2010 11:42
                                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 2/11/2010 17:32
                                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 14:05
                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? astro7 1/11/2010 18:47
                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 31/10/2010 15:03
                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 31/10/2010 16:00
                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 31/10/2010 16:43
                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 2/11/2010 2:26
                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 31/10/2010 20:25
                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 31/10/2010 22:16
                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 31/10/2010 22:22
                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? effeviemme 31/10/2010 22:58
                                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Manfred 31/10/2010 23:18
                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 1/11/2010 0:02
                                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 1/11/2010 0:53
                                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 2/11/2010 3:33
                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? astro7 1/11/2010 1:17
                                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 1/11/2010 8:05
                                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 1/11/2010 10:44
                                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? effeviemme 1/11/2010 11:26
                                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pyter 1/11/2010 11:57
                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 30/10/2010 18:05
                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 30/10/2010 19:51
                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? redna 30/10/2010 21:13
                                                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 30/10/2010 21:28
                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 30/10/2010 23:17
                                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 30/10/2010 23:29
                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 30/10/2010 23:52
                                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 30/10/2010 23:54
                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 31/10/2010 0:29
                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 31/10/2010 1:17
                                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 31/10/2010 10:06
                                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mirco 31/10/2010 0:35
                                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 31/10/2010 1:31
                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 30/10/2010 17:47
                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 29/10/2010 18:53
                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 29/10/2010 19:08
                                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 29/10/2010 19:19
                                                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 29/10/2010 19:29
                                                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 29/10/2010 19:38
                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 29/10/2010 20:05
                                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 29/10/2010 19:26
                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 29/10/2010 19:32
                                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? dr_julius 30/10/2010 1:20
                                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 30/10/2010 5:29
                                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Makk 30/10/2010 7:21
                                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 2/11/2010 18:53
                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? astro7 28/10/2010 16:37
                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 28/10/2010 17:13
                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pyter 27/10/2010 22:48
                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 28/10/2010 0:32
                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 28/10/2010 0:59
                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Spiderman 28/10/2010 7:05
                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 28/10/2010 8:48
                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 28/10/2010 12:15
                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Spiderman 27/10/2010 23:44
                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? temponauta 27/10/2010 21:34
                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 27/10/2010 21:53
                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pyter 27/10/2010 20:45
                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 27/10/2010 21:03
                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Spiderman 27/10/2010 21:20
                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Pyter 27/10/2010 22:34
                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Paxtibi 27/10/2010 19:57
                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mc 28/10/2010 13:11
                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 28/10/2010 15:24
                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Santaruina 28/10/2010 16:09
                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 28/10/2010 16:35
                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 28/10/2010 19:18
                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 28/10/2010 21:57
                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? temponauta 28/10/2010 22:54
                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 28/10/2010 23:08
                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 28/10/2010 23:11
                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 29/10/2010 0:00
                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 29/10/2010 0:58
                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Santaruina 29/10/2010 1:16
                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 29/10/2010 2:02
                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 29/10/2010 10:33
                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 29/10/2010 11:32
                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 29/10/2010 12:07
                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 29/10/2010 12:15
                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 29/10/2010 12:21
                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Santaruina 29/10/2010 12:34
                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Santaruina 29/10/2010 13:18
                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? abbidubbi 29/10/2010 13:11
                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 29/10/2010 13:53
                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 29/10/2010 14:51
                                                                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 29/10/2010 15:03
                                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 29/10/2010 15:15
                                                                           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Notturno 29/10/2010 15:30
                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Carmine 29/10/2010 14:51
                                                             Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Santaruina 29/10/2010 13:03
                                                               Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 29/10/2010 15:03
                                                                 Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 29/10/2010 15:20
                                                                   Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Red_Knight 29/10/2010 15:22
                                                                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 29/10/2010 15:40
                                                         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 29/10/2010 1:51
                     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? benitoche 27/10/2010 6:45
                       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 27/10/2010 16:26
     Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 27/10/2010 8:10
       Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 27/10/2010 16:55
         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Piero79 27/10/2010 17:33
         Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? mangog 27/10/2010 18:13
           Re: Aborto...ma dov'è la ragione? Calvero 27/10/2010 19:24
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