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   Fascismo Male Assoluto

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  •  ElwoodBlue
      ElwoodBlue
Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto
#1
Mi sento vacillare
Iscritto il: 20/4/2008
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BlSabbatH ha scritto:
Citazione:
Le tesi con cui il pedofilo cerca di convincermi dell'ineluttabilità biologica dello stupro dei bambini per me continuano ad avere la stessa dignità intellettuale di quelle del negazionista che per i propri interessi cerca di convincermi della non esistenza dell'olocausto.

anche io nutro una analoga considerazione per l'omeopatia o per il metodo simoncini, ma non per questo ad ogni post scrivo "attenzione: è una gran cazzata, stop.".
Per lo meno, inizialmente tento di argomentare, poi chiaro, la pazienza va a farsi benedire e molte volte cedo.. ma non è la non-considerazione a priori che fermerà tali teorie, ogni volta, ahimè, le si deve commentare senza privarle di dignità intellettuale.



BlSabbatH in linea teorica hai perfettamente ragione.
Bisogna mettersi lì con sacrosanta pazienza e tolleranza, se necessario ricominciare da capo ogni volta, chiarire i passaggi oscuri, cercare di interpretare le reali motivazioni dell'altro.

Non dirlo a me: l'ho fatto praticamente per tutta la vita.

Poi con il passare del tempo mi sono accorto che una discussione per non essere sterile deve rispettare almeno 3 condizioni:

1) Condivisione di valori.
Una volta ho passato una notte intera a discutere con un impiegato di banca rispetto all'ammontare delle richieste contrattuali per il rinnovo del loro contratto. Lui diceva che erano pochi soldi, io replicavo che erano tantissimi e che una richiesta del genere avrebbe messo fuori mercato altre categorie. Quando mi sono accorto che in definitiva tutte le sue obiezioni in definitiva erano basate su un sano "m'importa un cazzo della solidarietà, basta che guadagni bene io" gli ho augurato buona fortuna e sono andato a letto. E mi è dispiaciuto di averci speso tutto quel tempo.
Anche con sitchinite non c'è stata una discussione sui valori.
Per lui il razzismo contro gli ebrei è cosa buona e giusta, e io mi sono limitato ad argomentare di come le sue motivazioni fossero solo alibi intellettuali, forse per non ammettere il proprio razzismo.

2) Condivisione del metodo.
In tutte queste diatribe fra debuncheri e gli altri ne ho visti tanti ignorare gli argomenti dove erano deboli e concentrarsi solo su quelli in cui si ritenevano più forti. Anni in cui si parlava di rottami sul prato del pentagono e si ignorava deliberatamente l'argomento molten steel. Tu sicuramente ne hai visti più di me.
Questa roba mi ha un po' stufato

3) Onestà intellettuale.
E' la più importante. Quando affronto una discussione io metto sul piatto le mie opinioni esattamente come quando gioco a poker metto sul piatto del denaro. Finita la mano uno prende il piatto e l'altro lo perde.
Io le mie convinzioni le metto in gioco: posso riportarle a casa o posso perderle riconoscendo che l'interlocutore ha argomenti migliori dei miei.
Pretendo che l'altro faccia altrettanto.
Mandare le opinioni allo scontro contro le convinzioni è inutile: è come giocare a poker ma ogni volta che vinci tu l'avversario si riprende i propri soldi dal piatto.
(Paragone strano. Già il concetto di "vincere" una discussione è un po' bislacco).


Sulla base di tutto questo, per esempio, anche se le sue argomentazioni a volte mi fanno parecchia rabbia per la disonestà intellettuale con cui vengono espresse non credo mi vedrai mai entrare in una discussione con P.A.
Non ha senso farlo: qualunque cosa tu dica lui si attaccherà magari alla virgola messa male per non riconoscere di aver sbagliato.


Ci sono discussioni che arricchiscono e discussioni che impoveriscono.
Quelle che mi impoveriscono semplicemente dopo un po' le lascio perdere.
Inviato il: 24/9/2008 15:05
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Oggetto: Autore Data
     Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto phechiac 16/9/2008 16:58
       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 16/9/2008 17:26
         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto BlSabbatH 16/9/2008 22:17
           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 16/9/2008 22:29
     Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto sitchinite 16/9/2008 17:29
       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto phechiac 16/9/2008 18:33
         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto sitchinite 16/9/2008 19:25
           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Oldboy 16/9/2008 19:43
             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 16/9/2008 22:05
               Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto sitchinite 16/9/2008 22:53
                 Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 17/9/2008 1:15
                   Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto sitchinite 17/9/2008 7:53
                     Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 17/9/2008 10:52
                       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Ribelle 17/9/2008 11:06
                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Notturno 17/9/2008 12:09
                           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackhawk 17/9/2008 12:58
                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto LoneWolf58 17/9/2008 13:05
                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 17/9/2008 13:16
                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Sertes 17/9/2008 13:49
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                                 Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 17/9/2008 17:02
                                   Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto franco8 17/9/2008 17:39
                                   Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto phechiac 17/9/2008 18:13
                                     Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Pausania 17/9/2008 18:22
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                                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 17/9/2008 22:20
                                           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Pausania 17/9/2008 23:17
                                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto phechiac 17/9/2008 23:51
                                               Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto cct 6/10/2008 23:02
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                                                           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Skabrego 7/10/2008 13:24
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                                                       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto redna 8/10/2008 12:48
                                                       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 8/10/2008 14:26
                                                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Skabrego 8/10/2008 15:57
                                                           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto gudarian 8/10/2008 16:33
                                                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 9/10/2008 13:46
                                                               Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Skabrego 9/10/2008 15:05
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                                                                                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto gudarian 10/10/2008 10:31
                                                                                           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 11/10/2008 12:25
                                                                                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto gudarian 13/11/2008 14:22
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                                                                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto redna 11/10/2008 13:08
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                                                               Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto redna 8/10/2008 22:05
                                           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto phechiac 17/9/2008 23:53
                                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 18/9/2008 1:54
                                               Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 18/9/2008 5:52
                                                 Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Notturno 18/9/2008 14:44
                                                   Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 18/9/2008 15:51
                                                 Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Oldboy 18/9/2008 19:53
                                                   Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 19/9/2008 0:27
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                                                           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Ribelle 19/9/2008 12:07
                                                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 19/9/2008 13:04
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                                                                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 19/9/2008 23:02
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                                                                       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto sitchinite 20/9/2008 9:56
                                                                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto redna 20/9/2008 14:09
                                                                           Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 20/9/2008 14:51
                                                                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto sitchinite 20/9/2008 15:59
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                                                                                   Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Ribelle 21/9/2008 7:43
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                                                                                                                 Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto BlSabbatH 27/9/2008 12:49
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                                                                                                   Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 28/9/2008 12:40
                                                                                                     Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Paxtibi 28/9/2008 12:58
                                                                                                       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Ribelle 28/9/2008 14:26
                                                                                                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 28/9/2008 20:37
                                                                                                       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 28/9/2008 21:07
                                                                                                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto redna 28/9/2008 22:04
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                                                                                                             Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Ribelle 28/9/2008 23:39
                                                                                                               Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Notturno 29/9/2008 1:09
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                                                                                                               Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Ribelle 30/9/2008 9:30
                                                                                                                 Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto mangog 30/9/2008 10:51
                                                                                                                   Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto ElwoodBlue 1/10/2008 1:28
                                                                                                                     Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Oldboy 1/10/2008 10:51
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                                                                                                                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto gudarian 1/10/2008 16:49
                                                                                                                         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Oldboy 1/10/2008 19:24
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                                               Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto blackbart 19/9/2008 0:10
     Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Pausania 16/9/2008 22:27
     Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto sick-boy 25/9/2008 12:23
       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Linucs 25/9/2008 13:58
         Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto Ribelle 26/9/2008 0:03
     Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto sick-boy 27/9/2008 13:57
       Re: Fascismo Male Assoluto redna 27/9/2008 14:58
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