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Re: 2.25 secondi
#1
Sono certo di non sapere
Iscritto il: 3/6/2007
Da Roma - Pomezia
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Sertes ha scritto:

Sì, e quindi facciamo chiarezza. Ti riporto (rielaborato) quanto ho già scritto in un altro thread e lo integro con un intervento di Mazzucco di oggi:

Il documento peer-reviewed "active thermitic material found in the dust of 9/11 catastrophe" è la principale dimostrazione di auto-attentato che il 9/11 Truth Movement può esibire. Non è "presunto", ma scientificamente dimostrato, e come ho detto se il documento è errato va dimostrata la sua erroneetà da scienziati che ci mettono nome e cognome e con i dovuti crismi, cioè con un altro documento anch'esso peer-reviewed. Ad oggi questo non è successo, quindi la presenza di nano-thermite al WTC è dimostrata scientificamente.

Massimo Mazzucco ha scelto un approccio diverso, più cauto ed inattaccabile, cioè quello di dimostrare che la Versione Ufficiale è falsa in ognuno dei suoi punti cruciali. Le dodici domande ai sostenitori della Versione Ufficiale sono il prodotto di anni di dibattiti su internet, e anche se rappresentano solo la punta dell'icebearg delle contraddizioni che la VU ha con se stessa e con la Fisica, ad oggi non hanno ancora ricevuto alcuna risposta. E come hai visto, non sapendo misurarsi con le dodici domande e con le contraddizioni della VU i disinformatori cercano solo di confondere le acque.

Quindi ribadisco: il primo approccio dimostra l'auto-attentato, ma è roba scientifica diretta a scienziati. Il secondo approccio dimostra la falsità della VU ed è diretta alle persone interessate dall'argomento, che ne vogliano discutere


Grazie per il chiarimento preziosissimo Sertes, anche in riferimento al primo post che hai scritto in risposta a me. C' é una bella differenza di atteggiamento tra il post di garret (che magari voleva semplicemente ironizzare, consapevole o meno di quanto questo dia fastidio e sia inutile) e posts come questi tuoi.
Personalmente non sono d' accordo con le tue conclusioni, ma le posso tranquillamente rispettare.
In particolare la presenza di nanothermite non é dimostrazione di autoattentato, non per me. Ho già chiesto cosa avrebbe innescato l' esplosione, visto che le thermiti per loro natura sono degli 'accentuatori' di reazone e aumentano le temperature nelle esplosioni MA NON PROVOCANO esplosioni.
Qualcuno a questa domanda ha risposto: 'le esplosioni controllate'. Ma come ho già rilevato le esplosioni nel filmato si vedono mentre il palazzo sta già crollando, non prima, e non sono causa del crollo.
In merito alle 12 domande, ancora una volta io invece sostengo che le risposte siano state date, ma non son state ritenute valide.
Sopratutto perchè, come ho scritto qualche post fa, non é detto che io, o buckaroo, o pinco pallino che proviamo a rispondere alle 12 domande dobbiamo ritenere valido il documento del Nist in tutte le sue parti.
Inoltre c' é divergenza di interpretazione, tra 'noi' e 'voi' (scusa so che non dovrei ma devo per forza generalizzare) nei casi in cui il Nist dice 'non sappiamo spiegare questo e quello'.
Un caso particolare, nella lettera in PDF che tu (se non ricordo male) hai linkato e di cui hai chiesto conto a Buckaroo, é la frase della 4a pagina in cui il rapporto cita: NON POSSIAMO SPIEGARE IL CROLLO NELLA SUA TOTALITA' o qualcosa del genere.
Secondo me (e questa é la mia interpretazione, che evidentemente differisce dalla tua), il significato é legato alla ultima parte della pagina precedente in cui si scrive più o meno: "voi avete chiesto che dimostrassimo con un video di simulazione - ma data la complessità del fenomeno coinvolto nessun modello computerizzato può fornire una unica soluzione".
A mio avviso il 'non possiamo spiegare' é un 'mettere le mani avanti' per corettezza visto che nessun modello può essere talmente perfezionato da tenere conto di tutte le variabili.
Ora, io avendo utilizzato un pò (non molto in profondità) alcuni simulatori chimici e impiantistici, so bene quanto queste simulazioni siano inaffidabili, tanto che generalmente, quandi si ha possibilità di riprodurre gli eventi in scala (io personalmente ne ho curati solo due: una distillazione estrattiva e una mini esplosione con sodio metallico), si inserisce nelle simulazioni un apposito fattore di scala del quale poi bisogna stabilire la posizione nella formula in modo che compensi un pò la discrepanza tra simulato e realizzato.
Ovvio che, a meno che non si replichi un evento come quei crolli, é impossibile stabilire un fattore di scala per modelli complessi sul crollo dei palazzi. Ecco credo che più o meno il concetto del Nist sia questo o qualcosa di simile.
Ovvio che potrei sbagliarmi...
Inviato il: 20/5/2010 20:24
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                       Re: 2.25 secondi Garrett 20/5/2010 12:13
                         Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 20/5/2010 14:23
                           Re: 2.25 secondi Garrett 20/5/2010 14:54
                             Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 20/5/2010 15:05
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                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 20/5/2010 15:19
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                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 20/5/2010 17:42
                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 20/5/2010 17:48
                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 20/5/2010 17:52
                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 20/5/2010 17:52
                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 20/5/2010 19:02
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                     Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 20/5/2010 12:43
                       Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 20/5/2010 13:03
                         Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 20/5/2010 22:23
                           Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 20/5/2010 22:36
                           Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 20/5/2010 23:31
                     Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 20/5/2010 16:04
                       Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 20/5/2010 16:07
                         Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 20/5/2010 16:18
                         Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 20/5/2010 17:31
                           Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 20/5/2010 17:41
       Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 20/5/2010 9:55
         Re: 2.25 secondi Garrett 20/5/2010 10:17
           Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 20/5/2010 10:19
           Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 20/5/2010 10:19
             Re: 2.25 secondi Garrett 20/5/2010 10:26
               Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 20/5/2010 11:19
                 Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 20/5/2010 17:51
                   Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 20/5/2010 20:24
                     Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 20/5/2010 20:36
                       Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 20/5/2010 21:27
                     Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 20/5/2010 23:59
                       Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 21/5/2010 0:04
                     Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 21/5/2010 9:07
                       Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 21/5/2010 9:27
                         Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 21/5/2010 10:55
                           Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 21/5/2010 11:53
                             Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 21/5/2010 12:19
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                               Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 21/5/2010 16:26
                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 21/5/2010 17:09
                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 21/5/2010 22:49
                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 24/5/2010 16:10
                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 24/5/2010 16:18
                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 24/5/2010 16:24
                                   Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 21/5/2010 23:07
                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 22/5/2010 1:01
                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 22/5/2010 1:14
                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 22/5/2010 10:18
                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 22/5/2010 11:08
                                           Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 22/5/2010 13:48
                                             Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 22/5/2010 15:28
                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 22/5/2010 15:55
                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 22/5/2010 16:09
                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 22/5/2010 16:11
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                                             Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 22/5/2010 20:17
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                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 22/5/2010 22:25
                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 22/5/2010 22:28
                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 22/5/2010 22:30
                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 23/5/2010 13:52
                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 23/5/2010 13:57
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                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 23/5/2010 15:22
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                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 23/5/2010 16:57
                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 23/5/2010 17:03
                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 23/5/2010 17:24
                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 23/5/2010 17:45
                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 23/5/2010 18:04
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                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 23/5/2010 20:19
                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 23/5/2010 20:28
                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 23/5/2010 20:50
                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 23/5/2010 21:23
                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi bubu7 23/5/2010 22:42
                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi anakyn 24/5/2010 1:07
                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 24/5/2010 8:35
                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 24/5/2010 10:40
                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 24/5/2010 12:12
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                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 24/5/2010 12:23
                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 24/5/2010 14:41
                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 29/5/2010 15:01
                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 29/5/2010 16:03
                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 29/5/2010 18:15
                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 29/5/2010 18:28
                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 30/5/2010 18:10
                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Stefo 30/5/2010 18:26
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                                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 30/5/2010 19:48
                                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 30/5/2010 22:19
                                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi ahmbar 31/5/2010 0:22
                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi anakyn 31/5/2010 0:38
                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 31/5/2010 1:12
                                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 31/5/2010 9:59
                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 31/5/2010 9:53
                                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 31/5/2010 9:59
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                                                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi anakyn 31/5/2010 11:35
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                                                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi anakyn 31/5/2010 12:03
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                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi anakyn 31/5/2010 12:22
                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 31/5/2010 16:42
                                                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 3/6/2010 6:30
                                                                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi anakyn 4/6/2010 0:24
                                                                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 4/6/2010 7:27
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                                                                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 4/6/2010 13:24
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                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi r_five 4/6/2010 14:24
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                                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 8/6/2010 11:48
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                                                                                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi ahmbar 9/6/2010 0:11
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                                                                                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 9/6/2010 16:14
                                                                                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 9/6/2010 17:21
                                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 10/6/2010 17:35
                                                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi abbidubbi 10/6/2010 18:58
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                                                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 10/6/2010 23:35
                                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 10/6/2010 21:18
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                                                                                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 10/6/2010 23:42
                                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 10/6/2010 21:27
                                                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 10/6/2010 23:40
                                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 10/6/2010 22:15
                                                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 10/6/2010 23:51
                                                                                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 11/6/2010 9:34
                                                                                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 11/6/2010 12:25
                                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 11/6/2010 15:11
                                                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 11/6/2010 19:05
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                                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 11/6/2010 22:21
                                                                                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 10/6/2010 20:46
                                                                                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 10/6/2010 20:53
                                                                                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 10/6/2010 23:42
                                                                                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 11/6/2010 0:12
                                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 11/6/2010 1:06
                                                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 11/6/2010 8:02
                                                                                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 11/6/2010 8:48
                                                                                                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 11/6/2010 12:29
                                                                                                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 11/6/2010 13:07
                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 4/6/2010 17:21
                                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 8/6/2010 11:59
                                                                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 8/6/2010 12:53
                                                                                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 8/6/2010 14:35
                                                                                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 8/6/2010 14:45
                                                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 4/6/2010 17:26
                                                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 8/6/2010 11:30
                                                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 31/5/2010 11:16
                                                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi anakyn 31/5/2010 11:36
                                                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 31/5/2010 11:44
                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 31/5/2010 9:44
                                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 31/5/2010 10:10
                                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 31/5/2010 10:22
                                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 31/5/2010 11:09
                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 29/5/2010 22:42
                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 29/5/2010 22:56
                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 29/5/2010 23:08
                                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 29/5/2010 23:12
                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 30/5/2010 13:01
                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi ahmbar 30/5/2010 15:17
                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Sertes 30/5/2010 17:01
                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 31/5/2010 10:11
                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 31/5/2010 10:37
                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi ahmbar 11/6/2010 22:33
                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Redazione 12/6/2010 1:06
                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 24/5/2010 13:52
                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 24/5/2010 15:23
                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 24/5/2010 15:28
                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 24/5/2010 15:30
                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 24/5/2010 15:39
                                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 24/5/2010 15:33
                                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 24/5/2010 15:35
                                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 24/5/2010 16:40
                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 24/5/2010 16:59
                                                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 24/5/2010 21:29
                                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 24/5/2010 21:52
                                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 24/5/2010 22:43
                                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Ghilgamesh 25/5/2010 8:50
                                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 25/5/2010 8:53
                                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 25/5/2010 0:30
                                                                                               Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 25/5/2010 0:50
                                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 25/5/2010 0:52
                                                                                                 Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 25/5/2010 8:41
                                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 25/5/2010 0:13
                                                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 25/5/2010 0:29
                                                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi Cleaner 25/5/2010 0:48
                                                                   Re: 2.25 secondi PikeBishop 23/5/2010 17:50
                                                                     Re: 2.25 secondi sitchinite 23/5/2010 18:06
                                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi PikeBishop 23/5/2010 18:49
                                                       Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 23/5/2010 15:06
                                                         Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 23/5/2010 15:09
                                                           Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 23/5/2010 15:22
                                                             Re: 2.25 secondi Decalagon 23/5/2010 15:34
                         Re: 2.25 secondi ahmbar 21/5/2010 15:07
     Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 22/5/2010 16:04
       Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 22/5/2010 16:09
         Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 22/5/2010 16:17
           Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 22/5/2010 16:25
             Re: 2.25 secondi Buckaroo 22/5/2010 16:34
               Re: 2.25 secondi Teba 22/5/2010 17:21
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