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   Scienze Economiche
   Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione

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  •  anakyn
      anakyn
Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione
#1
Dubito ormai di tutto
Iscritto il: 8/1/2010
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Messaggi: 1428
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Citazione:

infosauro ha scritto:

Rimango perciò della mia opinione fino a che qualcuno non se la sente di dimostrare il contrario.



Liberissimo di rimanere della tua opinione, del tutto legittimo.

Liberissimo anche di ritenere che NON sia stato "dimostrato il contrario", sebbene su alcuni punti specifici questo ispiri al sottoscritto una crescente perplessità o sulle mie capacità di spiegazione o sulle tue capacità di comprensione.
Forse può essere un mix di entrambe le cose, e d'altra parte l'economia è ben lungi dall'essere una scienza esatta.


Detto in altri termini: puoi tranquillamente rimanere della tua idea, che del resto, a differenza di molti altri frequentatori di questi thread economici che ormai vanno avanti da parecchi mesi con livello di approfondimento via via più elevato, è sempre rimasta la stessa, immutabile ed inscalfibile per sostanza e profondità (tasse burocrazia corruzione brutto) a dispetto di qualsiasi argomentazione.
Questo depone senza dubbio a favore della tua coerenza di pensiero, che un po ti invidio, visto che io stesso su diversi argomenti ho avuto modo di modificare le mie idee.


Citazione:
Risposta sarcastica sì, ma fino a un certo punto: magari il senzatetto si compra delle azioni, la società in cui ha investito, grazie anche a quei soldi, riesce ad assumere qualcuno ed ecco che hai creato dei posti di lavoro.


Penso e spero che il sarcasmo continui, magari dammene conferma.


Citazione:
Citazione:
Nè io nè te siamo in grado di metterci a fare calcoli di questa portata e complessità, vai pure tranquillo. Ci mancano gli strumenti di calcolo, la complessità delle variabili in gioco, le statistiche.
Non siamo dei tecnici.

Possiamo solo ragionare sui principi a questo livello.



Bene, allora non venirmi a dire che

Citazione:
[...]alla fine produci un risultato che nel migliore dei casi è a somma zero, e più probabilmente a somma negativa.

Se tu tagli tasse e tagli spesa pubblica dello stesso importo, il caso più fortunato che ti può capirare è che non cambi assolutamente nulla, mentre se non sei abbastanza fortunato la situazione peggiora.[...]


Tu che ne sai visto che non sei un tecnico? Hai tirato a indovinare?


Ragionare sui piano del principio e della logica permette di raggiungere, sulla base di alcuni assunti iniziali, determinate conclusioni con un certo grado di correttezza anche senza la possibilità tecnica di compiere tutte le operazioni capaci di dimostrare la logica di fondo.

Io ti posso dire che il Sole è più lontano della Luna rispetto alla Terra anche senza bisogno di misurarne la distanza, giusto?

Se accetti il concetto di moltiplicatore economico, la diretta conseguenza è che in generale, un taglio delle tasse finanziato con equivalente taglio della spesa produce un gioco a somma zero, o più probabilmente a somma negativa.

Puoi metterti a contestare il concetto stesso di moltiplicatore economico, se vuoi.

In ogni caso il Governo di Renzi sembra provare a seguire in parte proprio la strada del taglio delle tasse finanziato da tagli di spesa, per cui potremmo sperimentare sulla nostra pelle di cittadini se e quali risultati produrrà.


Citazione:
Allora mostrami un corso di formazione che sia costato almeno più di due anni di stipendi di tutti quelli a cui è stato rivolto.


Continui a ragionare sul piano microeconomico e contabile, mentre io ti faccio un discorso macroeconomico che non sta parlando di costi (ho scritto già diversi post fa che quello è un argomento che per il momento possiamo anche trascurare, sebbene non sia trascurabile affatto) bensì di progettazione e pianificazione a livello strutturale.

Accettato questo discorso, POI si può parlare di costi.
E lì si torna sempre al discorso iniziale, c'è poco da fare...



Ripeto: o io non so spiegarmi o tu non sai capirmi.

Siccome però la tua idea è sempre e letteralmente rimasta la stessa in modo granitico, forse nè per me nè per te ha senso sforzarsi oltre.
Inviato il: 6/5/2014 15:52
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     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 18/2/2014 16:51
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         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 18/2/2014 18:09
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                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 13/3/2014 18:07
                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 13/3/2014 18:41
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 13/3/2014 18:47
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 13/3/2014 19:18
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 13/3/2014 22:44
                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 14/3/2014 1:25
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 14/3/2014 23:08
                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 15/3/2014 19:56
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 15/3/2014 21:10
                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 13/3/2014 22:37
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 14/3/2014 11:23
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 14/3/2014 11:59
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 14/3/2014 22:42
                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 12/3/2014 1:48
                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 13/3/2014 10:45
                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 13/3/2014 12:13
                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 10/3/2014 20:58
                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 10/3/2014 22:03
                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 10/3/2014 22:38
                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 10/3/2014 22:51
                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 10/3/2014 23:26
                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 10/3/2014 23:44
                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 11/3/2014 0:04
                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 11/3/2014 23:56
                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 12/3/2014 0:07
                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 12/3/2014 1:56
                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 13/3/2014 20:28
                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 13/3/2014 21:10
                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 13/3/2014 21:53
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 13/3/2014 22:19
                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 13/3/2014 21:42
                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 14/3/2014 21:52
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 16/3/2014 0:02
                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 16/3/2014 9:13
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 16/3/2014 16:23
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/3/2014 12:19
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 17/3/2014 15:16
                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 17/3/2014 15:25
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 17/3/2014 15:31
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/3/2014 16:23
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 17/3/2014 15:59
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 17/3/2014 16:26
                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 17/3/2014 16:58
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 17/3/2014 17:30
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/3/2014 17:47
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 17/3/2014 17:58
                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 14/3/2014 1:01
                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 14/3/2014 22:20
                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 4/3/2014 17:07
                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 4/3/2014 17:18
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 4/3/2014 19:59
                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 4/3/2014 9:34
                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 6/3/2014 17:44
                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 6/3/2014 18:30
                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 6/3/2014 18:38
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 6/3/2014 19:20
                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 6/3/2014 19:48
                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 6/3/2014 19:58
                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 6/3/2014 20:21
                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 7/3/2014 8:32
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 11:10
                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 8/3/2014 13:51
                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 8/3/2014 14:15
                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 8/3/2014 14:49
                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione earlturner 8/3/2014 15:39
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 7/3/2014 11:11
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 3/3/2014 16:04
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 3/3/2014 17:30
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 3/3/2014 15:51
                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 3/3/2014 16:05
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 3/3/2014 17:42
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 3/3/2014 18:04
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 3/3/2014 18:48
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 3/3/2014 18:30
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 3/3/2014 19:01
                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 3/3/2014 19:29
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 3/3/2014 13:07
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 13:18
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 12:05
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 3/3/2014 13:27
                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 14:31
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 14:52
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 3/3/2014 15:08
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 3/3/2014 15:06
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 15:07
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 3/3/2014 15:10
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 2/3/2014 17:32
                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/3/2014 20:19
                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/3/2014 20:32
                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/3/2014 20:40
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 3/3/2014 20:47
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 3/3/2014 20:52
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/3/2014 20:56
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 3/3/2014 21:02
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 21:32
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 4/3/2014 10:02
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/3/2014 22:30
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 23:34
                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 4/3/2014 12:53
                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 4/3/2014 13:08
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 4/3/2014 14:14
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 4/3/2014 16:14
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 4/3/2014 16:27
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 4/3/2014 20:14
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 4/3/2014 21:03
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 4/3/2014 21:23
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 5/3/2014 8:22
                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 5/3/2014 12:47
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 5/3/2014 13:16
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 5/3/2014 13:34
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 5/3/2014 13:39
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 5/3/2014 14:56
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 5/3/2014 14:59
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 5/3/2014 15:52
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione yarebon 5/3/2014 16:54
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 5/3/2014 17:48
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 5/3/2014 19:14
                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione yarebon 5/3/2014 21:37
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 6/3/2014 10:07
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 5/3/2014 21:59
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 6/3/2014 10:52
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 12:51
                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 6/3/2014 13:30
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 13:45
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 6/3/2014 13:50
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 14:05
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 6/3/2014 13:46
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 13:51
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 6/3/2014 13:53
                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 14:25
                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 14:27
                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 14:32
                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 6/3/2014 14:39
                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 14:46
                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 15:19
                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 6/3/2014 16:43
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 16:58
                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 17:10
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 1:52
                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 11:31
                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 13:02
                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 13:14
                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 14:41
                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 14:49
                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 14:54
                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 14:57
                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 17:51
                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 18:04
                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 8/3/2014 1:05
                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 8/3/2014 2:27
                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 8/3/2014 10:07
                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 8/3/2014 11:03
                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 8/3/2014 11:06
                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 8/3/2014 11:28
                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 8/3/2014 11:32
                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 8/3/2014 11:36
                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 7/3/2014 14:58
                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 7/3/2014 13:28
                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 7/3/2014 13:33
                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 7/3/2014 13:42
                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 7/3/2014 13:55
                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 14:18
                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 7/3/2014 14:21
                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 14:35
                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 8/3/2014 11:38
                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 8/3/2014 12:21
                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 8/3/2014 12:36
                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 14:43
                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 14:47
                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 14:54
                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Keevan 8/3/2014 11:31
                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 7/3/2014 14:31
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 7/3/2014 13:23
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 5/3/2014 9:12
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 5/3/2014 10:27
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 4/3/2014 16:25
                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 27/2/2014 21:24
                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 1/3/2014 17:59
     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione black 7/3/2014 15:31
       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione ohmygod 7/3/2014 15:34
       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 15:59
         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 7/3/2014 16:15
           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 17:53
     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 31/3/2014 17:29
       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 31/3/2014 18:17
         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 31/3/2014 21:12
           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 31/3/2014 21:39
             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 31/3/2014 23:41
               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 1/4/2014 16:08
                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 1/4/2014 17:24
           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 31/3/2014 23:38
             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 1/4/2014 15:27
           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 0:30
             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 1/4/2014 13:39
               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 17:54
             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 1/4/2014 15:16
               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 18:07
                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 1/4/2014 18:43
                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 1/4/2014 19:02
                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 19:03
                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 1/4/2014 19:31
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 2/4/2014 10:22
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 2/4/2014 13:09
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 2/4/2014 13:42
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 13:53
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 14:49
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 2/4/2014 15:45
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 2/4/2014 16:10
                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 2/4/2014 16:25
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 2/4/2014 17:43
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 17:54
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 2/4/2014 18:36
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 18:54
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 2/4/2014 17:51
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 2/4/2014 17:56
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 14/4/2014 10:27
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 15/4/2014 10:28
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 15/4/2014 10:39
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 15/4/2014 10:39
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 15/4/2014 10:45
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 15/4/2014 10:56
                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 15/4/2014 11:15
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 15/4/2014 11:50
                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 15/4/2014 13:52
                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 15/4/2014 14:03
                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 16/4/2014 15:23
                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 16/4/2014 16:52
                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 16/4/2014 17:23
                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 16/4/2014 18:26
                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 16/4/2014 18:48
                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 16/4/2014 18:55
                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 16/4/2014 21:01
                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 16/4/2014 23:13
                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 1:07
                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 9:09
                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 12:44
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 17/4/2014 12:54
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 13:21
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 17/4/2014 14:08
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 17/4/2014 14:23
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 14:35
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 14:43
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 13:54
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 14:01
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 14:28
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 17/4/2014 16:24
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 16:42
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 17/4/2014 17:22
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 17/4/2014 17:36
                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 17/4/2014 17:42
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 17:51
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 17:57
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 17/4/2014 18:22
                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 17/4/2014 21:25
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 17/4/2014 21:30
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 17/4/2014 21:35
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 18/4/2014 15:37
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 18/4/2014 15:40
                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 18/4/2014 16:45
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 18/4/2014 16:57
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 18/4/2014 16:53
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 18/4/2014 20:03
                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 18/4/2014 20:42
                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 18/4/2014 20:48
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 18/4/2014 21:00
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 18/4/2014 21:06
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 18/4/2014 21:15
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 18/4/2014 23:09
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 22/4/2014 12:08
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 17/4/2014 16:54
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 17/4/2014 17:32
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 18/4/2014 17:03
                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 17/4/2014 0:03
                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 0:24
                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 16/4/2014 20:55
                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 16/4/2014 18:19
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione funky1 15/4/2014 12:08
                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 15/4/2014 14:03
                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione horselover 15/4/2014 16:03
                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 15/4/2014 16:15
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 22/4/2014 12:34
                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 22/4/2014 13:02
                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 22/4/2014 15:40
                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 22/4/2014 16:17
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                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 22/4/2014 19:26
                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 22/4/2014 20:43
                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 22/4/2014 23:39
                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 23/4/2014 8:35
                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 23/4/2014 11:26
                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 23/4/2014 11:32
                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 23/4/2014 11:39
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                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 24/4/2014 10:13
                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 24/4/2014 16:36
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 24/4/2014 18:12
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 24/4/2014 18:36
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 24/4/2014 18:42
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 24/4/2014 21:52
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 24/4/2014 22:10
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 24/4/2014 23:37
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 25/4/2014 12:37
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 25/4/2014 12:43
                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione namaste10 25/4/2014 15:01
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 25/4/2014 15:51
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 26/4/2014 9:54
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 26/4/2014 13:06
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 26/4/2014 14:43
                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 26/4/2014 16:17
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione namaste10 26/4/2014 16:42
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 26/4/2014 17:42
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione namaste10 27/4/2014 0:50
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 27/4/2014 10:51
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 27/4/2014 11:32
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 27/4/2014 11:42
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 27/4/2014 10:38
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 27/4/2014 14:51
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione namaste10 27/4/2014 14:59
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 27/4/2014 16:36
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 28/4/2014 21:02
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 30/4/2014 17:14
                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 30/4/2014 17:16
                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione ivan 30/4/2014 18:39
                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 1/5/2014 11:45
                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 1/5/2014 21:47
                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 2/5/2014 18:05
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                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione yarebon 2/5/2014 21:01
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                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/5/2014 17:28
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 3/5/2014 18:58
                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/5/2014 20:37
                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 3/5/2014 21:55
                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 4/5/2014 10:54
                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 4/5/2014 10:59
                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 4/5/2014 10:57
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                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 4/5/2014 12:03
                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 5/5/2014 11:36
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                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 5/5/2014 22:19
                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/5/2014 1:55
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                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 6/5/2014 18:27
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                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 6/5/2014 19:38
                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/5/2014 20:13
                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 6/5/2014 20:52
                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/5/2014 11:39
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                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/5/2014 14:35
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                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 7/5/2014 15:04
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                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/5/2014 18:11
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                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/5/2014 20:07
                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 7/5/2014 21:49
                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/5/2014 23:28
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 8/5/2014 11:17
                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 8/5/2014 11:27
                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 24/5/2014 14:13
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 24/5/2014 20:53
                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 25/5/2014 10:31
                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 25/5/2014 11:22
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 29/5/2014 21:51
                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione horselover 29/5/2014 22:20
                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 25/5/2014 11:27
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 25/5/2014 12:32
                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 25/5/2014 13:12
                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 27/5/2014 23:00
                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 27/5/2014 19:32
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                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 10/5/2014 15:33
                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 21/5/2014 23:23
                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 22/5/2014 1:17
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 22/5/2014 15:12
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 1/6/2014 20:43
                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione horselover 1/6/2014 22:41
                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 2/6/2014 11:25
                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 6/5/2014 11:44
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 28/4/2014 10:49
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                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 28/4/2014 11:33
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 28/4/2014 11:44
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 28/4/2014 12:02
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 28/4/2014 15:26
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 28/4/2014 21:31
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 29/4/2014 11:11
                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 29/4/2014 21:02
                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 30/4/2014 16:49
                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 28/4/2014 14:59
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 28/4/2014 16:19
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 28/4/2014 17:38
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 28/4/2014 18:02
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 28/4/2014 18:51
                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 28/4/2014 19:51
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 30/4/2014 18:26
                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 1/5/2014 8:44
                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 2/5/2014 8:44
                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 2/5/2014 12:28
                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 2/5/2014 13:33
                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione DaemonZC 2/5/2014 16:18
                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 2/5/2014 20:19
                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/5/2014 17:35
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 26/4/2014 12:44
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 26/4/2014 16:09
                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 22/4/2014 23:11
                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 22/5/2014 16:24
                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 22/5/2014 16:51
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 16/4/2014 18:03
                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 2/4/2014 18:34
                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 2/4/2014 20:00
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 20:21
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 2/4/2014 20:29
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione ivan 3/4/2014 3:31
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 5/4/2014 14:59
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 5/4/2014 18:13
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 6/4/2014 16:49
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/4/2014 14:13
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 7/4/2014 16:07
                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/4/2014 22:26
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 8/4/2014 23:03
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 7/4/2014 17:24
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 3/4/2014 2:04
                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 1/4/2014 19:00
                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 19:12
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