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   Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione

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Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione
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I Diritti Naturali dell’Uomo e I Limiti dello Stato

Ne La Legge Frédéric Bastiat presenta l’inoppugnabile massima che i diritti dell’uomo esistano precedentemente alla formazione dello Stato e che, pertanto, l’azione collettiva dello Stato non possa essere in contrasto con i preesistenti diritti individuali. Secondo Bastiat, l’uomo può delegare allo Stato soltanto quei poteri che egli stesso già possiede e non ha il diritto naturale di forzare il prossimo alla beneficienza. Dato che di mia volontà non posso costringerti a fare della beneficienza, neanche la forza governativa può forzarti di sua scelta. Eppure, è esattamente ciò che fa. Poniamo la circostanza che tu voglia opporti al fatto che il governo stia dando denaro ad una organizzazione di beneficenza che personalmente avversi. Non andresti molto lontano asserendo che hai il diritto a pagare in proporzione meno tasse. Se continuassi a rifiutarti di pagare, il governo confischerebbe i tuoi beni. Se cercassi di proteggerli, il governo ti ucciderebbe. Eppure, all’interno del contesto dei diritti naturali, il governo non ha alcuna giustificazione nel forzarti a pagare per un’organizzazione che disapprovi e che non finanzieresti volontariamente.

La Vera Giustizia e l’Imperativo Categorico

Forse c’è un fondamento logico superiore che giustifica lo Stato a violare i nostri diritti naturali confiscando coercitivamente le nostre proprietà per il presunto miglioramento degli altri. In riferimento a tale fondamento logico, ci rivolgiamo a due filosofi – Immanuel Kant e T. Patrick Burke. Cominciamo con Kant. La nostra concezione di “vera giustizia” non trova una migliore espressione di quella di Immanuel Kant nella spiegazione del suo “imperativo categorico”. Un imperativo categorico dice incondizionatamente cosa fare a tutti gli uomini, in tutti i posti, tutto il tempo. Non desume il suo potere da alcuna autorità diversa dalla pura ragione. Kant distingue questo imperativo categorico da un imperativo ipotetico, quale il “bisogno”. Sebbene un imperativo ipotetico possa essere valido, come ad esempio “le persone bisognose vivrebbero meglio se ricevessero sussidi statali”, non può mai essere oggettivo. Dà una ragione soltanto a coloro i quali ne sono coinvolti, in questo caso i bisognosi. Dare sussidi alle persone povere non può essere un’azione incondizionata, da applicare a tutte le persone, in tutti i luoghi ed in ogni momento. Nel suo libro introduttivo a Kant, Roger Scruton spiega come ci siano cinque diverse forme dell’imperativo categorico. Le prime due sono le più importanti relativamente ai nostri fini. La prima forma è la Regola d’Oro, Matteo 7,12: “Tutto quanto volete che gli uomini facciano a voi, anche voi fatelo a loro: questa infatti è la Legge ed i Profeti”. Abramo Lincoln illustrò la Regola d’Oro quando disse: “Non volendo essere uno schiavo, non sarò un padrone”. Si basa soltanto sulla ragione. La seconda forma è che tutti gli uomini debbano essere trattati come fini, non come mezzi. Gli essere razionali sono dei fini in sé e mai meramente dei mezzi per qualche altro fine o dei mezzi per raggiungere i fini di alcuni uomini e di altri no. In base a questa legge naturale, anche se in una comunità tutti tranne un individuo donassero ad un’organizzazione, l’imperativo categorico negherebbe che sia giusto che la comunità forzasse quell’unico individuo. Essa vedrebbe tale individuo come un fine e non come un mezzo, un essere razionale con dignità umana. Il professor T. Patrick Burke esprime un’aggiunta importante all’ingiusta natura della coercizione statale giustificata con la beneficienza. In maniera convincente, porta avanti l’idea che l’atto di rifiutarsi di aiutare qualcuno bisognoso non è ingiusto, in quanto egli viene lasciato nella stessa posizione in cui era prima. L’atto di rifiutarsi di aiutare non peggiora la situazione della persona. Se ci legassimo ad una sorta di concetto superiore di giustizia per aiutare tutti coloro che venissero da noi a chiedere aiuto, allora diventeremmo schiavi di tutto il genere umano, una violazione dell’imperativo categorico in cui saremmo usati come mezzi e non come fini.


L’Impossibilità del Calcolo Economico dello Stato

Nel 1920 Ludwig von Mises scrisse una devastante critica dell’emergente movimento socialista. In meno di 75 pagine, che includono un’introduzione del professor Yuri Maltsev ed una postfazione del professor Joseph Salerno, Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth spiega come, in assenza di proprietà privata, il calcolo economico sia impossibile. Mises chiarì che nessun governo può sapere cosa produrre o quali risorse usare per creare tutti i beni che potremmo desiderare perché soltanto chi possiede effettivamente una proprietà può disporre di essa razionalmente. Pensiamo a due mondi, quello della mente contenente le preferenze ed il mondo del mercato e dei prezzi. Le preferenze sono ordinate nella mente a seconda dei bisogni che percepiamo di primaria importanza. Queste preferenze sono diverse per ogni persona e cambiano costantemente persino in ogni individuo. Esse s’incontrano nel mercato con tutte le altre per stabilire i prezzi, il che ci permette di fare decisioni economiche e convenienti relative a cosa produrre, come farlo, e cosa comprare. Mises fece notare che senza un mercato dei prezzi, uno Zar dell’Economia sarebbe cieco su cosa produrre e come produrlo. I prezzi di mercato sono determinati soltanto dalle persone che esprimono le loro preferenze in base a cosa già possiedono; ovverosia, la proprietà privata. Lo Zar non sta spendendo i suoi soldi o portando i suoi prodotti al mercato per venderli. Quindi come può decidere razionalmente cosa fare? La risposta di Mises è che non può. Dato che il governo è composto da individui che non stanno spendendo i propri soldi o piazzando i loro prodotti sul mercato, non c’è possibilità che possano decidere razionalmente quale organizzazione, se mai ce ne fosse una, dovrebbe essere supportata dallo Stato. Fanno affidamento su ciò che possono essere soltanto chiamate “relazioni corrotte”; come aiutare i propri amici, scegliere enti che potrebbero assumerli in futuro, ottenere l’appoggio di organizzazioni che sono particolarmente persistenti e fastidiosi, ecc. ecc. Questo comportamento è descritto nel migliore dei modi dalla “teoria della scelta pubblica”, che spiega che le azioni degli individui del governo sono guidate dagli stessi interessi personali che ci sono in tutte le aree della vita, ridicolizzando l’idea che quelle fatte dal governo si basino su considerazioni etiche superiori.


Conclusioni

Infine, osserviamo che il welfare statale è imposto in maniera coercitiva; non ha altra giustificazione se non quella della pura forza. Nessuno ha un diritto naturale sul nostro lavoro o sulla nostra proprietà; non c’è un imperativo categorico nel chiedere l’aiuto degli altri e nessuno nel provare vergogna in noi stessi se rifiutiamo di “aiutare” altri individui tramite la coercizione dello Stato; e non c’è nessuna possibilità di effettuare un calcolo economico razionale per determinare quale organizzazione lo Stato debba supportare ed in quale entità.


Articolo di Patrick Barron su Mises.org

Traduzione di Alessio Cuozzo

Adattamento a cura di Giovanni Barone
_________________
Io non parlo come scrivo, io non scrivo come penso, io non penso come dovrei pensare, e così ogni cosa procede nella più profonda oscurità. Kepler
Inviato il: 6/5/2014 11:44
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                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 20/3/2014 9:53
                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 20/3/2014 14:24
                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 20/3/2014 13:07
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                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 20/3/2014 15:55
                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 20/3/2014 16:36
                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 21/3/2014 11:01
                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 21/3/2014 13:11
                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 21/3/2014 13:32
                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 21/3/2014 14:02
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                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 21/3/2014 17:57
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 21/3/2014 19:17
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 21/3/2014 22:51
                                                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 22/3/2014 0:27
                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 22/3/2014 0:27
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 22/3/2014 0:33
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                                                                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 22/3/2014 1:13
                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 25/3/2014 17:58
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione ohmygod 25/3/2014 20:55
                                                                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 26/3/2014 0:10
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 26/3/2014 22:11
                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione stacchio 27/3/2014 13:04
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 28/3/2014 14:50
                                                                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 29/3/2014 8:50
                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 29/3/2014 21:19
                                                                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 29/3/2014 21:22
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 13/3/2014 18:07
                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 13/3/2014 18:41
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 13/3/2014 18:47
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 13/3/2014 19:18
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 13/3/2014 22:44
                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 14/3/2014 1:25
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 14/3/2014 23:08
                                                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 15/3/2014 19:56
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 15/3/2014 21:10
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                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 14/3/2014 11:23
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                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 14/3/2014 22:42
                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 12/3/2014 1:48
                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 13/3/2014 10:45
                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 13/3/2014 12:13
                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 10/3/2014 20:58
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                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 10/3/2014 22:51
                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 10/3/2014 23:26
                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 10/3/2014 23:44
                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 11/3/2014 0:04
                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 11/3/2014 23:56
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                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 13/3/2014 21:10
                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 13/3/2014 21:53
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 13/3/2014 22:19
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                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 14/3/2014 21:52
                                                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 16/3/2014 0:02
                                                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 16/3/2014 9:13
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 16/3/2014 16:23
                                                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/3/2014 12:19
                                                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 17/3/2014 15:16
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                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/3/2014 16:23
                                                                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 17/3/2014 15:59
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 17/3/2014 16:26
                                                                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 17/3/2014 16:58
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                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 4/3/2014 17:07
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                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 4/3/2014 19:59
                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 4/3/2014 9:34
                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 6/3/2014 17:44
                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 6/3/2014 18:30
                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 6/3/2014 18:38
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                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 6/3/2014 20:21
                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 7/3/2014 8:32
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                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 8/3/2014 13:51
                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 8/3/2014 14:15
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                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione earlturner 8/3/2014 15:39
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 7/3/2014 11:11
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 3/3/2014 16:04
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                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 3/3/2014 13:07
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                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 14:31
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                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 15:07
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                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 2/3/2014 17:32
                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/3/2014 20:19
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                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/3/2014 20:40
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 3/3/2014 20:47
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                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 3/3/2014 20:56
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                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 21:32
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 4/3/2014 10:02
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                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 3/3/2014 23:34
                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 4/3/2014 12:53
                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 4/3/2014 13:08
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 4/3/2014 14:14
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 4/3/2014 16:14
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 4/3/2014 16:27
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 4/3/2014 20:14
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                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 4/3/2014 21:23
                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 5/3/2014 8:22
                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 5/3/2014 12:47
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 5/3/2014 13:16
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 5/3/2014 13:34
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 5/3/2014 13:39
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 5/3/2014 14:56
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 5/3/2014 14:59
                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 5/3/2014 15:52
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione yarebon 5/3/2014 16:54
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 5/3/2014 17:48
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 5/3/2014 19:14
                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione yarebon 5/3/2014 21:37
                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 6/3/2014 10:07
                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 5/3/2014 21:59
                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 6/3/2014 10:52
                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 12:51
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                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 13:51
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                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 6/3/2014 14:39
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                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 15:19
                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 6/3/2014 16:43
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 16:58
                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 6/3/2014 17:10
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 1:52
                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 11:31
                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 13:02
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                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 14:41
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                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 17:51
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                                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 8/3/2014 10:07
                                                                                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 8/3/2014 11:03
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                                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 8/3/2014 11:32
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                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 7/3/2014 14:58
                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 7/3/2014 13:28
                                                                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 7/3/2014 13:33
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                                                                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 7/3/2014 13:55
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                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 8/3/2014 11:38
                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 8/3/2014 12:21
                                                                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 8/3/2014 12:36
                                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 14:43
                                                                                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 7/3/2014 14:47
                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 14:54
                                                                                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Keevan 8/3/2014 11:31
                                                                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 7/3/2014 14:31
                                                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 7/3/2014 13:23
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 5/3/2014 9:12
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 5/3/2014 10:27
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione blackbart 4/3/2014 16:25
                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Hito 27/2/2014 21:24
                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 1/3/2014 17:59
     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione black 7/3/2014 15:31
       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione ohmygod 7/3/2014 15:34
       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 15:59
         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 7/3/2014 16:15
           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/3/2014 17:53
     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 31/3/2014 17:29
       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 31/3/2014 18:17
         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 31/3/2014 21:12
           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 31/3/2014 21:39
             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 31/3/2014 23:41
               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 1/4/2014 16:08
                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 1/4/2014 17:24
           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 31/3/2014 23:38
             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 1/4/2014 15:27
           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 0:30
             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 1/4/2014 13:39
               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 17:54
             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 1/4/2014 15:16
               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 18:07
                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 1/4/2014 18:43
                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 1/4/2014 19:02
                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 19:03
                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 1/4/2014 19:31
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 2/4/2014 10:22
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 2/4/2014 13:09
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 2/4/2014 13:42
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 13:53
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 14:49
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 2/4/2014 15:45
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 2/4/2014 16:10
                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 2/4/2014 16:25
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 2/4/2014 17:43
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 17:54
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 2/4/2014 18:36
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 18:54
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 2/4/2014 17:51
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 2/4/2014 17:56
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 14/4/2014 10:27
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 15/4/2014 10:28
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 15/4/2014 10:39
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 15/4/2014 10:39
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 15/4/2014 10:45
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 15/4/2014 10:56
                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 15/4/2014 11:15
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 15/4/2014 11:50
                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 15/4/2014 13:52
                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 15/4/2014 14:03
                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 16/4/2014 15:23
                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 16/4/2014 16:52
                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 16/4/2014 17:23
                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 16/4/2014 18:26
                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 16/4/2014 18:48
                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 16/4/2014 18:55
                                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 16/4/2014 21:01
                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 16/4/2014 23:13
                                                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 1:07
                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 9:09
                                                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 12:44
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 17/4/2014 12:54
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 13:21
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione perspicace 17/4/2014 14:08
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione toussaint 17/4/2014 14:23
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 14:35
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 14:43
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 13:54
                                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 14:01
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 17/4/2014 14:28
                                                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 17/4/2014 16:24
                                                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 17/4/2014 16:42
                                                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 17/4/2014 17:22
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                                                                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione infosauro 26/4/2014 12:44
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                                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Ste_79 22/4/2014 23:11
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                     Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 2/4/2014 20:00
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 2/4/2014 20:21
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Merio 2/4/2014 20:29
                         Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione ivan 3/4/2014 3:31
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 5/4/2014 14:59
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 5/4/2014 18:13
                           Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 6/4/2014 16:49
                             Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/4/2014 14:13
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Nomit 7/4/2014 16:07
                                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 7/4/2014 22:26
                                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 8/4/2014 23:03
                               Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione franco8 7/4/2014 17:24
                       Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione anakyn 3/4/2014 2:04
                 Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Mande 1/4/2014 19:00
                   Re: Euro o Lira: Riassunto discussione Sertes 1/4/2014 19:12
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