Re: OLOCAUSTO: verità, mezza verità o menzogna?
Inviato da Linucs il 30/6/2006 22:59:27
PS: lasciamo perdere quei buffoni di Irving e Ahmadinejad : i migliori alleati che i sionisti avrebbero potuto trovare !
Leggiamo tutti insieme Ynetnews:
Prosecuting Holocaust denial
British historian David Irving has made a name for himself as the ultimate Holocaust denier and has become a strong supporter for the neo-Nazis.
For decades, Irving has used all his strength to "explain" that the annihilation of European Jewry never actually happened, that Adolf Hitler didn't know Jews under his rule were in danger and that Jews were not systematically murdered in gas chambers.
Irving claims that we, the survivors of Auschwitz, who lived for months and years under the shadow of gas chambers and ovens, are simply lying and spreading slander about the Germans.
"All lies, exaggeration and invention of the Jews," this half-Jew (what can you do) has written time and again.
Fuori uno. Avanti il secondo:
Zündel's ancestry
According to Toronto Sun columnist Mark Bonokoski, Zündel's mother was Gertrude Mayer and his maternal grandparents were Nagal and Isador (Izzy) Mayer. Izzy Mayer was a union organizer for the garment industry in the Bavarian town of Augsburg.
According to Bonokoski, Ernst's ex-wife Irene Zündel said that the possibility of being at least part-Jewish bothered Zündel so much that he returned to Germany in the 1960s in search of his family's Ariernachweis, a Nazi-era certificate of pure Aryan blood, but was unable to find any such document for his family.
Leggiamo:
The Jewish card
Back when Ernst Zundel was first weighing the real likelihood of his deportation to his German homeland, and his immediate arrest upon arrival for hate crimes, he considered announcing to the world that he was a Jew so he could exercise the "right of return" to Israel, where Holocaust denial laws had yet to exist.
"Had yet to exist?"
Today they do.
Under Jewish law, any child born to a Jewish mother is considered a Jew, regardless of the father's religion or nationality,
(non è una legge razzista, avete capito male!)
and Ernst Zundel's mother was Gertrude Mayer, daughter of Nagal and Isadore (Izzy) Mayer, a union organizer for the garment industry in the primarily Jewish Bavarian town of Augsburg.
It was Zundel's planned entry card into Israel.
According to ex-wife Irene Zundel, the possibility that Jewish blood coursed through Zundel's veins at first bothered the future author of The Hitler We Loved and Why so much that he returned to Germany during the '60s to look for his family's "einpass" -- the certificate Hitler doled out to those born of pure Aryan stock.
But no such certificate could be found.
Zundel alludes to this futile search as giving him "a little fright there in the '60s" during a 1997 interview with Tsadok Yecheskeli, the New Jersey-based correspondent for the Israeli Hebrew newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth.
A videotape of that interview became evidence after Irene Zundel testified against her ex-husband years ago at the Canadian Human Rights Commission hearings into his anti-Semitic and hate-fostering website, a copy of which was recently obtained by the Sun.
She also told investigators of how Zundel planned to use his "Jewishness" to get him into Israel if it looked like he was bound for a jail cell in Germany.
And then Israel brought in Holocaust denial legislation.
The tape was shot in Zundel's former bunker-like headquarters on the east end of Toronto's Carlton St., and not long after two incidents which centred on that fortress -- the alleged arson attack on his home and headquarters, and the arrival of a pipebomb which he claimed was delivered in the mail.
What follows is an excerpt from that tape.
It comes directly after Zundel talks of his father being an ambulance medic who "would go behind the front lines to pick up the wounded and near-dead, and bring them back to Germany."
Yecheskeli: "And other relatives?"
Zundel: "If you are fishing for any political information, my father was a Social Democrat, my mother a simple Christian woman. Her father had been a union organizer in Bavaria, and of the garment workers' union. His name got him into trouble because it was Isadore Mayer and, of course, he was called Izzy by his people and the people thought he... "
Yecheskeli: "Was Jewish?"
Zundel: "No, I don't... don't think so."
Yecheskeli: "You don't have any... "
Zundel: (Laughter) "I had a little fright there in the '60s."
Yecheskeli: "And there's no Jewish blood in your family?"
Zundel: "Well, I'd be hard-pressed to admit to it."
Yecheskeli: "Why sure."
Zundel: "So now I... "
Yecheskeli: "So, you don't... you basically said don't expect any answer" (to the question of Jewish blood).
Zundel: "What I am saying... "
Yecheskeli: "... you are also in doubt?"
Sentite questa...
Zundel: "What I am saying is that there's a very good reason why I agree with one thing in Jewish law -- in that the mother is determining who is a Jew and who is not a Jew."
Yecheskeli: "Ah, I see, if it was the opposite way, you'd be... "
Zundel: "No, no."
Yecheskeli: "You'd be in trouble?"
Zundel: "No, no, no... because a mother knows with whom she slept with, right? (Laughs) And in that period, and so on -- seriously, quite seriously... "
Yecheskeli: "Are you sure there's no Jewish blood in your family?"
Zundel: (In hushed voice) "No."
Segue logicamente che...
PPS: Mi rendo conto che bisogna giudicare le persone solo da quello che dicono ma anche se guardo la faccia di Irving ("auschwitz ? un parco a tema per ebrei !") mi vien da vomitare...
...abbiamo appena letto un commento squisitamente antisemita. "Sorpresa!"
Come sempre, il giudizio istintivo e superficiale si rivela un'arma a doppio taglio.
Risparmio al lettore la pigna di link (tutti tratti ovviamente da quotidiani mainstream, giammai da turpi pubblicazioni revisioniste), poiché come dice l'uomo ragno "da un grande potere deriva una grande responsabilità..."
Avanti:
Negare l'olocausto è un crimine paragonabile allo stesso olocausto.
Ecco un altro assoluto dal quale possiamo trarre diletto. Infatti:
A quanto pare per gli Armeni no,per i ceceni no,per i palestinesi no,per gli iracheni no,per i ruandesi no,quindi è questione morale o politica il revisionismo?
Visto che negare l'olocausto è un crimine paragonabile all'olocausto stesso, dobbiamo logicamente dedurre che questa affermazione abbia valore anche per gli Armeni.
Apriamo il Cassetto dell'Apocalisse, che contiene i link del megapost di Foxman.
Badombe> ORROREEE!
Damien> NOOOO!
Armenian archbishop quizzed over spat with yeshiva student
The Armenian archbishop in Israel, Nourhan Manougian, was questioned under warning by police yesterday after he slapped a yeshiva student during a procession marking the Exaltation of the Holy Cross in Jerusalem's Old City.
The archbishop slapped the student after the latter spat at the cross the Armenians were carrying and at Manougian himself.
The incident developed into a brawl during which Manougian's ceremonial medallion, which has been used by Armenian archbishops since the 17th century, broke. The yeshiva student was also detained for questioning. Police are now considering whether to initiate criminal proceedings against the Armenian archbishop and to charge him with assault.
Seguite la linea... unite i puntini...
Meanwhile, the incident has sparked much anger among the clergy of the small Armenian community in Jerusalem. Religious Jews, among them yeshiva students, customarily spit on the ground as a sign of disgust on seeing the cross.
The Armenians, who live adjacent to the Jewish Quarter of the Old City, suffer from this phenomenon more than any of the other Christian sects in the Old City. Manougian says he and his colleagues have already learned to live with it. "I no longer get worked up by people who turn around and spit when I pass them by in the street; but to approach in the middle of a religious procession and to spit on the cross in front of all the priests of the sect is humiliation that we are not prepared to accept," he notes.
Questo ovviamente non è un hate crime.
Jew spits at Greek Orthodox Priests in Jerusalem
A religious Jew spat at a procession of Greek Orthodox priests in the Old City of Jerusalem on Monday, police said. The assailant, who was placed under arrest, said he spat at the procession near the Church of the Holy Sepulcher because he saw the cross which they were carrying, Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said. The incident was the third such attack in the Old City in the last year.
Segui la linea...
Russian Parliament Denounces Armenian Genocide Ahead of 90th Anniversary
The Russian State Duma passed a resolution on Friday denouncing the genocide of the Armenians in 1915 following a unanimous vote just ahead of the start of the 90th anniversary of the massacres in Turkey and western Armenia.
"The deputies of the State Duma fully denounce the act genocide and believe that the entire international community should commemorate the 90th anniversary," the Interfax news agency quoted the resolution as saying.
The deputies called it one the most "tragic" and "cruel" events of the 20th century.
April 24 is seen as the date when the massacres began.
Russia was among the first to recognize the genocide in 1915, and remains among a handful of countries that recognize the massacre of some 1.5 million Armenians between 1915 and 1920 by Turks as genocide. Turkey itself still does not recognize the genocide, and neither does the United States, where Congress has pressed for recognition several times.
Canada has joined the group of countries that recognizes the genocide. Many countries, such as the United States and Israel, are reluctant to recognize the genocide because they fear it would strain relations with Turkey, a NATO member that is seen as a stable democracy in the Middle East.
Per quale motivo nessuno vuole ricordare i poveri armeni? Segui la linea...
Turkey awards Israeli company contract for army drones
ANKARA: Turkey announced on Tuesday it had chosen an Israeli manufacturer to supply its army with 10 drones and ground stations, ahead of a fence-mending visit to Israel by the Turkish prime minister.
A joint venture between two Israeli firms, Israel Aircraft Industries and Elbit, was awarded a contract for three unmanned aerial vehicle systems, which include 10 aircraft, surveillance equipment and ground control stations, the under secretariat for defence industries said in a statement.
The contract is part of a 183-million-dollar project in which Turkish companies will provide sub-systems and services amounting to 30 per cent of the project, it said.
The Israelis plan to finish their part of the project in 24 to 30 months, the statement said. The announcement came ahead of a visit by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to Israel and the Palestinian territories on May 1-2 following a chilly period in Turkish-Israeli ties.
Erdogan has harshly criticised the Jewish state's policies against the Palestinians, calling them "state terror" at one instance last May.
Turkey, a strictly secular non-Arab Muslim nation, has been Israel's main regional ally since 1996, when the two countries hammered out a military cooperation deal, much to the anger of Arab nations and Iran. Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul held fence-mending talks in Israel in January, declaring that bilateral ties remain strong.
Turkish author Pamuk risks jail time over remarks on Armenian massacres
ISTANBUL -- Prominent Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk is set to be tried in December over his controversial remarks about the Armenian massacres and could end up serving three years in jail, his publisher said on Wednesday.
Alla faccia della Turchia in Europa: ora si potrà andare in carcere per aver negato un genocidio, oppure per aver ricordato l'altro: celebrate diversity. Ma cosa avranno mai in comune per essere soggetti al vigore della legge?
Pamuk, the widely translated author of such internationally renowned works as The White Castle and Snow, triggered a public outcry when he said in an interview with a Swiss newspaper in February that "1 million Armenians were killed in these lands and nobody but me dares to talk about it".
E non è forse vero?
As a result, Pamuk, who earlier this year won the prestigious peace price of the Association of German Publishers and Booksellers, received several death threats and a local official ordered the seizure and destruction of his works.
Arietta fresca d'Europa...
The reclusive author has since refused to speak to the press at all.
A prosecutor in Istanbul has indicted 53-year-old Pamuk on the grounds that his remarks amounted to public denigration of the Turkish identity and has demanded a prison term of between six months and three years, Iletisim publishing house said in a statement.
The trial is expected to start on December 16, it added.
The massacre of Armenians during World War I is one of the most controversial episodes in Turkish history.
Indovinate perché?
Armenians say that up to 1.5 million of their kinsmen died in orchestrated killings nine decades ago during the last years of the Ottoman Empire, the precursor of modern Turkey.
Turkey argues that 300,000 Armenians and thousands of Turks were killed in what was civil strife during World War I when the Armenians rose up against their Ottoman rulers.
Unisci i puntini...
Turkey Wins Removal Of Armenian Genocide From German Schools
Chissà come avranno fatto?
(dpa) - Pressure from Turkey has resulted in the removal of a reference to the Armenian genocide from a German school curriculum, reports said Wednesday.
Sorpresa delle sorprese: la Germania nega la strage di armeni.
The eastern German state of Brandenburg has eliminated half a sentence on the Armenians included in ninth and tenth grade history classes after a Turkish diplomat complained to state Prime Minister Matthias Platzeck, the newspaper Die Welt reported.
In a chapter entitled "War, Technology and Civilian Populations" the school book text said "for example, the genocide of the Armenians population of Anatolia." That passage has now been removed from school textbooks, the newspaper said.
Platzeck met regularly with Turkish diplomats and was "steeled" against their influence, the newspaper quoted him as saying. The prime minister added that genocide was too important an issue to be dealt with in just half a sentence. "Brandenburg's curriculum was the only one in Germany which up until now included a reference to the murder of the Armenians," said Die Welt.
Questo, ovviamente, non è negazionismo.
Most historians say that between 600,000 and 1.5 million Armenians were killed in 1915 and 1916 under the Ottoman Turks during World War I. The Turkish government, which denies that a genocide took place, speaks of 200,000 dead.
A Turkish embassy spokesman in Berlin declined to comment directly on the report, but noted the initiative had come from the Turkish consulate responsible for Berlin and Brandenburg - not from the embassy itself.
Prime Minister Platzeck is a member of Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats (SPD). Schroeder is a strong supporter of Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union. Germany has almost two million resident Turks - the biggest Turkish minority in the EU.
Seguite, seguite la linea...
The Christian Democratic Union (CDU), which serves as junior coalition partner in Brandenburg's government, is infuriated over the change to the state's schoolbooks. "The impression created is fatal," said Sven Patke, the state CDU secretary general.
The head of the Central Committee of Armenians in Germany, Schavarsh Ovassapian told Die Welt the move was "a scandal." "It is depressing, if what's in schoolbooks in Brandenburg can be dictated from Ankara," he said.
Nel frattempo, in Francia...
No immunity over gas chamber remarks
The European Parliament refused Tuesday to grant immunity from prosecution to a French extreme right-wing deputy for remarks about the Nazi gas chambers, in a case threatening to embarrass the EU assembly.
After four times delaying a vote on Bruno Gollnisch, number two in France's extreme right National Front, the parliament's legal affairs committee voted overwhelmingly not to give him protection as a member of the European parliament from court proceedings.
Gollnisch was charged over his comments at a press conference last year which trod a fine line on the edge of French laws against calling into question crimes against humanity.
Chissà cosa succede ad un francese che dimentica gli armeni?
Acted not fairly
The committee chairwoman, British MEP Diana Wallis, said her panel felt that the way Gollnisch had acted "was not fairly and fully and squarely within the member's exercise of his duties as a member of this parliament."
"We are not in any way entering into a debate on the nature of the charge in France or the nature of the law in France," she said.
Prendete nota della frase sul post-it:
Speaking in Lyon, France, in October 2004, Gollnisch said: "I do not deny the existence of deadly gas chambers. But I'm not a specialist on this issue, and I think we have to let the historians debate it."
He did not contest the "hundreds of thousands, the millions of deaths" during the Holocaust, but added: "As to the way those people died, a debate should take place."
Avete scritto?
Avanti:
Four days later, then French justice minister Dominique Perben, who is now transport minister and intends to run against Gollnisch in 2007 municipal elections, ordered police in Lyon to launch an inquiry.
They found he had no case to answer but Perben insisted charges be laid.
The trial of Gollnisch, who claims he is being persecuted by Perben, was scheduled for September but was pushed back until November 29 so that parliament could rule on his immunity.
The EU assembly will vote on the committee's recommendation in full session next week in Brussels. In the unlikely event that it votes against the committee's advice, the case against Gollnisch would probably have to be dropped.
Andiamo avanti, conservando il nostro post-it.
Censoring history
A FEDERAL lawsuit we recently filed seeks to reaffirm a guiding American legal principle endangered by the "culture wars," namely the right to an unrestrained mind, free of censorship and state orthodoxies.
Centered broadly on competing historical interpretations of a century-old conflict but, more precisely, on technical evaluations of a recently enacted Massachusetts statute, our lawsuit challenges the Massachusetts Department of Education's attempt to stamp its imprimatur on a single view of history, to the exclusion of all others, on the minds of our high school students.
A single view of history... indovinate di cosa sta parlando?
The plaintiffs are two public school teachers, a high school senior, and the Assembly of Turkish American Associations. Though from different backgrounds and points of view, all the plaintiffs and lawyers in this constitutional test case share the conviction that the government should not establish politically approved beliefs on contentious historical disputes and then censor competing positions in state curricular guides.
Tranne ovviamente in un caso particolare. Indovinate quale?
The historical dispute involves interpreting what happened to the Armenian population of eastern Anatolia during and after World War I in the waning years of the Ottoman Empire. Though historians have documented death and deportation of large numbers of Armenians (as well as the deaths of many Turks), they disagree over whether what happened constitutes "genocide," a term defined by international law as the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. While many historians argue that it was the intent of the Turks to exterminate the Armenians as a people, others counter that such intent has not been firmly established and that the events more closely resemble a civil war than a genocidal campaign.
Segui la linea... unisci i puntini...
The legislative seed curtailing debate on this historical question was planted more than six years ago. In March 1999, the Massachusetts Legislature enacted a statute that required the construction of a curricular materials guide "on genocide and human rights issues" for use in public schools. The guide itself states that it should provide "differing points of view on controversial issues." However, when it came time to implement the law, the Department of Education, after initially including materials on both sides of the "Armenian Genocide" controversy, eliminated all materials arguing against the genocide classification.
This censorship of previously included materials occurred after the department was lobbied by a state senator and others who claimed that any thesis calling the label genocide into question was "racist" or "hate speech."
E' sempre la solita scusa... il razzismo, l'odio, ed ovviamente la censura.
Commissioner David Driscoll and Board of Education Chairman James E. Peyser consequently wrote on Aug. 31, 1999, that "the legislative intent of the statute was to address the Armenian genocide and not to debate whether or not this occurred." Driscoll and Peyser thus made an inherently political decision that reversed the educational judgment of those who thought both sides worthy of being aired. Any time political interference results in censorship of educationally suitable materials, our students lose.
Censorship of materials previously included recalls a 1982 legal tussle arising in the Island Trees Union Free School District in New York State, in which a local school board, under pressure from what the Supreme Court termed "a politically conservative organization of parents," removed from the school library books deemed "anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, and just plain filthy." The court ordered the books reinstated "because we are concerned in this case with the suppression of ideas."
The debate over whether "Armenian Genocide" is a historically accurate designation or an exaggerated and politicized claim has followed the battle lines that mark today's political and cultural landscape. The culture wars are about not only seeing one's beliefs triumph but also depriving competing views of access to the marketplace of ideas. Special-interest groups intolerant of dissent enlist government to endow their side with unimpeachable credibility. On a variety of issues -- from abortion to stem cell research, evolution and "intelligent design" to pornography, the flag pledge to war protest -- the benefits of useful and civil public and academic discussion seem to have been buried under decades of rancor.
It is against this backdrop of a culture eager to censor that our lawsuit attempts to reaffirm a quintessential American value. As Massachusetts native and US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes stated in 1929, "[t]he principle of free thought -- not free thought for those who agree with us, but freedom for the thought that we hate," is arguably the most imperative principle in the US Constitution.
Stranamente, il genocidio armeno è oggetto di vivace dibattito, mentre queste frasi sono considerate reato:
Speaking in Lyon, France, in October 2004, Gollnisch said: "I do not deny the existence of deadly gas chambers. But I'm not a specialist on this issue, and I think we have to let the historians debate it." He did not contest the "hundreds of thousands, the millions of deaths" during the Holocaust, but added: "As to the way those people died, a debate should take place."
Ma non è esattamente la linea di condotta applicata agli armeni? Forse ci sono dei vincoli al dibattito che ci sfuggono. L'attento lettore si chiederà: perché si parla più o meno regolarmente di Palestina, Iraq, Rwanda, e gli armeni finiscono sempre dimenticati in un angolo?
Young Turks
The Young Turks were Turkish, constitutionalist, progressive, partisan, which brought the second constitutional era by a revolution against Abdul Hamid II. The first movement was established among the military students in 1889, and with the official establishment of Committee of Union and Progress (CUP) in 1906, among the other parties, Young Turks become the member of this party. The Young Turk movement built a rich tradition of dissent that shaped the intellectual, political and artistics life of the late Ottoman period (decline, dissolution).
The Three Pashas among the Young Turks from Coup of 1913 until the end of World War I ruled the Ottoman Empire. Young Turks were responsible for orchestrating the Armenian Genocide.
Historical occurrences
In the past groups of Jews and individual Jews have converted to Islam; some voluntarily, some by force, some due to social pressure, and some in hopes of improving prospects for themselves and their families. While those who converted voluntarily have typically lost their identification as Jews, others who converted under various kinds of pressures have sometimes retained a connection to their ethnicity and faith, and some have even eventually returned to Judaism.
In Persia, during the Safavid dynasty of the 16th and 17th centuries, Jews were forced to abandon their religion, proclaim publicly that they had converted to Islam, and were given the name Jadid-al-Islam (New Muslims); in 1661 an edict was issued overturning this forced conversion, and the Jews returned to openly practising Judaism. Similarly, after a pogrom in 1839, the Jews of Mashhad were forced to convert to Islam. They practiced Judaism secretly for over a century before openly returning to their faith; at the turn of the 21st century around 10,000 lived in Israel another 4,000 in New York City, and 1,000 elsewhere.1
In Turkey the claimed messiah Sabbatai Zevi was imprisoned until he converted to Islam in 1666, and was subsequently given a high position in the Sultan's court. A number of his followers converted as well, becoming known as the Donmeh (a Turkish word for a religious convert). While outwardly Muslim, they worshipped Zevi as the Messiah and an incarnation of God. The Donmeh secretly remained Jewish by most definitions, observed certain Jewish rituals, prayed in Hebrew and Aramaic, and celebrated Jewish festivals and fasts. The Donmeh still exist today.
History
While outwardly Muslim, the Donmeh secretly remained Jews, and continued to practice Jewish rituals covertly. They worshipped Sabbatai Zevi as the Messiah and an incarnation of God, observe certain Jewish rituals and pray in Hebrew and Aramaic and secretly celebrate Jewish festivals and fasts. They also observe rituals celebrating Zevi. They interpreted Zevi's conversion in a Kabbalistic way. Zevi had to rescue the bits of God spread among religions by converting to different confessions.
Some of the original Donmeh were Muslims who were converted to Sabbatianism.
There are several branches of the Donmeh. The first was the Ismirli formed in Izmir in what is now Turkey. The second were the Jakubi founded by Jacob Querido, a successor to Zevi who also made messianic claims. Also were the Othman Baba led by Berechia. This group taught Jacob Frank who led the Frankists in 18th century eastern Europe and the fifth were the Lechli who are of Polish descent who lived in exile in Salonika and Constantinople.
While being accepted by the Muslim society, they only married within their own community which ended in several recessive genetical traits being typical of Donmeh.
Several Donmeh were among the Young Turks, Turkish intellectuals who tried to reform the Ottoman Empire. At the time of the interchange of Greek and Turkish populations between Turkey and Greece, the Salonika Donmeh tried to be recognized as not Muslims to avoid forced transport to Anatolia. In the Republican era, they strongly supported the pro-Western and laïque reforms of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, an attitude that bolstered the suspicions of Muslims towards them.
Avete vagamente intuito il motivo misterioso per cui l'armeno finisce sempre spolverato sotto il tappeto?
Si potrebbe andare a guardare i famosi morti del comunismo...
.
.
.
...ma è così bella l'aria aperta, no?
(il megapost originale ha 158 link, non tirate la giacchetta allo zio Linucs altrimenti cominciamo a sputtanare libri e testimoni a forza di quotidiani...)
Leggiamo tutti insieme Ynetnews:
Prosecuting Holocaust denial
British historian David Irving has made a name for himself as the ultimate Holocaust denier and has become a strong supporter for the neo-Nazis.
For decades, Irving has used all his strength to "explain" that the annihilation of European Jewry never actually happened, that Adolf Hitler didn't know Jews under his rule were in danger and that Jews were not systematically murdered in gas chambers.
Irving claims that we, the survivors of Auschwitz, who lived for months and years under the shadow of gas chambers and ovens, are simply lying and spreading slander about the Germans.
"All lies, exaggeration and invention of the Jews," this half-Jew (what can you do) has written time and again.
Fuori uno. Avanti il secondo:
Zündel's ancestry
According to Toronto Sun columnist Mark Bonokoski, Zündel's mother was Gertrude Mayer and his maternal grandparents were Nagal and Isador (Izzy) Mayer. Izzy Mayer was a union organizer for the garment industry in the Bavarian town of Augsburg.
According to Bonokoski, Ernst's ex-wife Irene Zündel said that the possibility of being at least part-Jewish bothered Zündel so much that he returned to Germany in the 1960s in search of his family's Ariernachweis, a Nazi-era certificate of pure Aryan blood, but was unable to find any such document for his family.
Leggiamo:
The Jewish card
Back when Ernst Zundel was first weighing the real likelihood of his deportation to his German homeland, and his immediate arrest upon arrival for hate crimes, he considered announcing to the world that he was a Jew so he could exercise the "right of return" to Israel, where Holocaust denial laws had yet to exist.
"Had yet to exist?"
Today they do.
Under Jewish law, any child born to a Jewish mother is considered a Jew, regardless of the father's religion or nationality,
(non è una legge razzista, avete capito male!)
and Ernst Zundel's mother was Gertrude Mayer, daughter of Nagal and Isadore (Izzy) Mayer, a union organizer for the garment industry in the primarily Jewish Bavarian town of Augsburg.
It was Zundel's planned entry card into Israel.
According to ex-wife Irene Zundel, the possibility that Jewish blood coursed through Zundel's veins at first bothered the future author of The Hitler We Loved and Why so much that he returned to Germany during the '60s to look for his family's "einpass" -- the certificate Hitler doled out to those born of pure Aryan stock.
But no such certificate could be found.
Zundel alludes to this futile search as giving him "a little fright there in the '60s" during a 1997 interview with Tsadok Yecheskeli, the New Jersey-based correspondent for the Israeli Hebrew newspaper, Yedioth Ahronoth.
A videotape of that interview became evidence after Irene Zundel testified against her ex-husband years ago at the Canadian Human Rights Commission hearings into his anti-Semitic and hate-fostering website, a copy of which was recently obtained by the Sun.
She also told investigators of how Zundel planned to use his "Jewishness" to get him into Israel if it looked like he was bound for a jail cell in Germany.
And then Israel brought in Holocaust denial legislation.
The tape was shot in Zundel's former bunker-like headquarters on the east end of Toronto's Carlton St., and not long after two incidents which centred on that fortress -- the alleged arson attack on his home and headquarters, and the arrival of a pipebomb which he claimed was delivered in the mail.
What follows is an excerpt from that tape.
It comes directly after Zundel talks of his father being an ambulance medic who "would go behind the front lines to pick up the wounded and near-dead, and bring them back to Germany."
Yecheskeli: "And other relatives?"
Zundel: "If you are fishing for any political information, my father was a Social Democrat, my mother a simple Christian woman. Her father had been a union organizer in Bavaria, and of the garment workers' union. His name got him into trouble because it was Isadore Mayer and, of course, he was called Izzy by his people and the people thought he... "
Yecheskeli: "Was Jewish?"
Zundel: "No, I don't... don't think so."
Yecheskeli: "You don't have any... "
Zundel: (Laughter) "I had a little fright there in the '60s."
Yecheskeli: "And there's no Jewish blood in your family?"
Zundel: "Well, I'd be hard-pressed to admit to it."
Yecheskeli: "Why sure."
Zundel: "So now I... "
Yecheskeli: "So, you don't... you basically said don't expect any answer" (to the question of Jewish blood).
Zundel: "What I am saying... "
Yecheskeli: "... you are also in doubt?"
Sentite questa...
Zundel: "What I am saying is that there's a very good reason why I agree with one thing in Jewish law -- in that the mother is determining who is a Jew and who is not a Jew."
Yecheskeli: "Ah, I see, if it was the opposite way, you'd be... "
Zundel: "No, no."
Yecheskeli: "You'd be in trouble?"
Zundel: "No, no, no... because a mother knows with whom she slept with, right? (Laughs) And in that period, and so on -- seriously, quite seriously... "
Yecheskeli: "Are you sure there's no Jewish blood in your family?"
Zundel: (In hushed voice) "No."
Segue logicamente che...
PPS: Mi rendo conto che bisogna giudicare le persone solo da quello che dicono ma anche se guardo la faccia di Irving ("auschwitz ? un parco a tema per ebrei !") mi vien da vomitare...
...abbiamo appena letto un commento squisitamente antisemita. "Sorpresa!"
Come sempre, il giudizio istintivo e superficiale si rivela un'arma a doppio taglio.
Risparmio al lettore la pigna di link (tutti tratti ovviamente da quotidiani mainstream, giammai da turpi pubblicazioni revisioniste), poiché come dice l'uomo ragno "da un grande potere deriva una grande responsabilità..."
Avanti:
Negare l'olocausto è un crimine paragonabile allo stesso olocausto.
Ecco un altro assoluto dal quale possiamo trarre diletto. Infatti:
A quanto pare per gli Armeni no,per i ceceni no,per i palestinesi no,per gli iracheni no,per i ruandesi no,quindi è questione morale o politica il revisionismo?
Visto che negare l'olocausto è un crimine paragonabile all'olocausto stesso, dobbiamo logicamente dedurre che questa affermazione abbia valore anche per gli Armeni.
Apriamo il Cassetto dell'Apocalisse, che contiene i link del megapost di Foxman.
Badombe> ORROREEE!
Damien> NOOOO!
Armenian archbishop quizzed over spat with yeshiva student
The Armenian archbishop in Israel, Nourhan Manougian, was questioned under warning by police yesterday after he slapped a yeshiva student during a procession marking the Exaltation of the Holy Cross in Jerusalem's Old City.
The archbishop slapped the student after the latter spat at the cross the Armenians were carrying and at Manougian himself.
The incident developed into a brawl during which Manougian's ceremonial medallion, which has been used by Armenian archbishops since the 17th century, broke. The yeshiva student was also detained for questioning. Police are now considering whether to initiate criminal proceedings against the Armenian archbishop and to charge him with assault.
Seguite la linea... unite i puntini...
Meanwhile, the incident has sparked much anger among the clergy of the small Armenian community in Jerusalem. Religious Jews, among them yeshiva students, customarily spit on the ground as a sign of disgust on seeing the cross.
The Armenians, who live adjacent to the Jewish Quarter of the Old City, suffer from this phenomenon more than any of the other Christian sects in the Old City. Manougian says he and his colleagues have already learned to live with it. "I no longer get worked up by people who turn around and spit when I pass them by in the street; but to approach in the middle of a religious procession and to spit on the cross in front of all the priests of the sect is humiliation that we are not prepared to accept," he notes.
Questo ovviamente non è un hate crime.
Jew spits at Greek Orthodox Priests in Jerusalem
A religious Jew spat at a procession of Greek Orthodox priests in the Old City of Jerusalem on Monday, police said. The assailant, who was placed under arrest, said he spat at the procession near the Church of the Holy Sepulcher because he saw the cross which they were carrying, Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said. The incident was the third such attack in the Old City in the last year.
Segui la linea...
Russian Parliament Denounces Armenian Genocide Ahead of 90th Anniversary
The Russian State Duma passed a resolution on Friday denouncing the genocide of the Armenians in 1915 following a unanimous vote just ahead of the start of the 90th anniversary of the massacres in Turkey and western Armenia.
"The deputies of the State Duma fully denounce the act genocide and believe that the entire international community should commemorate the 90th anniversary," the Interfax news agency quoted the resolution as saying.
The deputies called it one the most "tragic" and "cruel" events of the 20th century.
April 24 is seen as the date when the massacres began.
Russia was among the first to recognize the genocide in 1915, and remains among a handful of countries that recognize the massacre of some 1.5 million Armenians between 1915 and 1920 by Turks as genocide. Turkey itself still does not recognize the genocide, and neither does the United States, where Congress has pressed for recognition several times.
Canada has joined the group of countries that recognizes the genocide. Many countries, such as the United States and Israel, are reluctant to recognize the genocide because they fear it would strain relations with Turkey, a NATO member that is seen as a stable democracy in the Middle East.
Per quale motivo nessuno vuole ricordare i poveri armeni? Segui la linea...
Turkey awards Israeli company contract for army drones
ANKARA: Turkey announced on Tuesday it had chosen an Israeli manufacturer to supply its army with 10 drones and ground stations, ahead of a fence-mending visit to Israel by the Turkish prime minister.
A joint venture between two Israeli firms, Israel Aircraft Industries and Elbit, was awarded a contract for three unmanned aerial vehicle systems, which include 10 aircraft, surveillance equipment and ground control stations, the under secretariat for defence industries said in a statement.
The contract is part of a 183-million-dollar project in which Turkish companies will provide sub-systems and services amounting to 30 per cent of the project, it said.
The Israelis plan to finish their part of the project in 24 to 30 months, the statement said. The announcement came ahead of a visit by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to Israel and the Palestinian territories on May 1-2 following a chilly period in Turkish-Israeli ties.
Erdogan has harshly criticised the Jewish state's policies against the Palestinians, calling them "state terror" at one instance last May.
Turkey, a strictly secular non-Arab Muslim nation, has been Israel's main regional ally since 1996, when the two countries hammered out a military cooperation deal, much to the anger of Arab nations and Iran. Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul held fence-mending talks in Israel in January, declaring that bilateral ties remain strong.
Turkish author Pamuk risks jail time over remarks on Armenian massacres
ISTANBUL -- Prominent Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk is set to be tried in December over his controversial remarks about the Armenian massacres and could end up serving three years in jail, his publisher said on Wednesday.
Alla faccia della Turchia in Europa: ora si potrà andare in carcere per aver negato un genocidio, oppure per aver ricordato l'altro: celebrate diversity. Ma cosa avranno mai in comune per essere soggetti al vigore della legge?
Pamuk, the widely translated author of such internationally renowned works as The White Castle and Snow, triggered a public outcry when he said in an interview with a Swiss newspaper in February that "1 million Armenians were killed in these lands and nobody but me dares to talk about it".
E non è forse vero?
As a result, Pamuk, who earlier this year won the prestigious peace price of the Association of German Publishers and Booksellers, received several death threats and a local official ordered the seizure and destruction of his works.
Arietta fresca d'Europa...
The reclusive author has since refused to speak to the press at all.
A prosecutor in Istanbul has indicted 53-year-old Pamuk on the grounds that his remarks amounted to public denigration of the Turkish identity and has demanded a prison term of between six months and three years, Iletisim publishing house said in a statement.
The trial is expected to start on December 16, it added.
The massacre of Armenians during World War I is one of the most controversial episodes in Turkish history.
Indovinate perché?
Armenians say that up to 1.5 million of their kinsmen died in orchestrated killings nine decades ago during the last years of the Ottoman Empire, the precursor of modern Turkey.
Turkey argues that 300,000 Armenians and thousands of Turks were killed in what was civil strife during World War I when the Armenians rose up against their Ottoman rulers.
Unisci i puntini...
Turkey Wins Removal Of Armenian Genocide From German Schools
Chissà come avranno fatto?
(dpa) - Pressure from Turkey has resulted in the removal of a reference to the Armenian genocide from a German school curriculum, reports said Wednesday.
Sorpresa delle sorprese: la Germania nega la strage di armeni.
The eastern German state of Brandenburg has eliminated half a sentence on the Armenians included in ninth and tenth grade history classes after a Turkish diplomat complained to state Prime Minister Matthias Platzeck, the newspaper Die Welt reported.
In a chapter entitled "War, Technology and Civilian Populations" the school book text said "for example, the genocide of the Armenians population of Anatolia." That passage has now been removed from school textbooks, the newspaper said.
Platzeck met regularly with Turkish diplomats and was "steeled" against their influence, the newspaper quoted him as saying. The prime minister added that genocide was too important an issue to be dealt with in just half a sentence. "Brandenburg's curriculum was the only one in Germany which up until now included a reference to the murder of the Armenians," said Die Welt.
Questo, ovviamente, non è negazionismo.
Most historians say that between 600,000 and 1.5 million Armenians were killed in 1915 and 1916 under the Ottoman Turks during World War I. The Turkish government, which denies that a genocide took place, speaks of 200,000 dead.
A Turkish embassy spokesman in Berlin declined to comment directly on the report, but noted the initiative had come from the Turkish consulate responsible for Berlin and Brandenburg - not from the embassy itself.
Prime Minister Platzeck is a member of Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder's Social Democrats (SPD). Schroeder is a strong supporter of Turkey's bid to become a member of the European Union. Germany has almost two million resident Turks - the biggest Turkish minority in the EU.
Seguite, seguite la linea...
The Christian Democratic Union (CDU), which serves as junior coalition partner in Brandenburg's government, is infuriated over the change to the state's schoolbooks. "The impression created is fatal," said Sven Patke, the state CDU secretary general.
The head of the Central Committee of Armenians in Germany, Schavarsh Ovassapian told Die Welt the move was "a scandal." "It is depressing, if what's in schoolbooks in Brandenburg can be dictated from Ankara," he said.
Nel frattempo, in Francia...
No immunity over gas chamber remarks
The European Parliament refused Tuesday to grant immunity from prosecution to a French extreme right-wing deputy for remarks about the Nazi gas chambers, in a case threatening to embarrass the EU assembly.
After four times delaying a vote on Bruno Gollnisch, number two in France's extreme right National Front, the parliament's legal affairs committee voted overwhelmingly not to give him protection as a member of the European parliament from court proceedings.
Gollnisch was charged over his comments at a press conference last year which trod a fine line on the edge of French laws against calling into question crimes against humanity.
Chissà cosa succede ad un francese che dimentica gli armeni?
Acted not fairly
The committee chairwoman, British MEP Diana Wallis, said her panel felt that the way Gollnisch had acted "was not fairly and fully and squarely within the member's exercise of his duties as a member of this parliament."
"We are not in any way entering into a debate on the nature of the charge in France or the nature of the law in France," she said.
Prendete nota della frase sul post-it:
Speaking in Lyon, France, in October 2004, Gollnisch said: "I do not deny the existence of deadly gas chambers. But I'm not a specialist on this issue, and I think we have to let the historians debate it."
He did not contest the "hundreds of thousands, the millions of deaths" during the Holocaust, but added: "As to the way those people died, a debate should take place."
Avete scritto?
Avanti:
Four days later, then French justice minister Dominique Perben, who is now transport minister and intends to run against Gollnisch in 2007 municipal elections, ordered police in Lyon to launch an inquiry.
They found he had no case to answer but Perben insisted charges be laid.
The trial of Gollnisch, who claims he is being persecuted by Perben, was scheduled for September but was pushed back until November 29 so that parliament could rule on his immunity.
The EU assembly will vote on the committee's recommendation in full session next week in Brussels. In the unlikely event that it votes against the committee's advice, the case against Gollnisch would probably have to be dropped.
Andiamo avanti, conservando il nostro post-it.
Censoring history
A FEDERAL lawsuit we recently filed seeks to reaffirm a guiding American legal principle endangered by the "culture wars," namely the right to an unrestrained mind, free of censorship and state orthodoxies.
Centered broadly on competing historical interpretations of a century-old conflict but, more precisely, on technical evaluations of a recently enacted Massachusetts statute, our lawsuit challenges the Massachusetts Department of Education's attempt to stamp its imprimatur on a single view of history, to the exclusion of all others, on the minds of our high school students.
A single view of history... indovinate di cosa sta parlando?
The plaintiffs are two public school teachers, a high school senior, and the Assembly of Turkish American Associations. Though from different backgrounds and points of view, all the plaintiffs and lawyers in this constitutional test case share the conviction that the government should not establish politically approved beliefs on contentious historical disputes and then censor competing positions in state curricular guides.
Tranne ovviamente in un caso particolare. Indovinate quale?
The historical dispute involves interpreting what happened to the Armenian population of eastern Anatolia during and after World War I in the waning years of the Ottoman Empire. Though historians have documented death and deportation of large numbers of Armenians (as well as the deaths of many Turks), they disagree over whether what happened constitutes "genocide," a term defined by international law as the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. While many historians argue that it was the intent of the Turks to exterminate the Armenians as a people, others counter that such intent has not been firmly established and that the events more closely resemble a civil war than a genocidal campaign.
Segui la linea... unisci i puntini...
The legislative seed curtailing debate on this historical question was planted more than six years ago. In March 1999, the Massachusetts Legislature enacted a statute that required the construction of a curricular materials guide "on genocide and human rights issues" for use in public schools. The guide itself states that it should provide "differing points of view on controversial issues." However, when it came time to implement the law, the Department of Education, after initially including materials on both sides of the "Armenian Genocide" controversy, eliminated all materials arguing against the genocide classification.
This censorship of previously included materials occurred after the department was lobbied by a state senator and others who claimed that any thesis calling the label genocide into question was "racist" or "hate speech."
E' sempre la solita scusa... il razzismo, l'odio, ed ovviamente la censura.
Commissioner David Driscoll and Board of Education Chairman James E. Peyser consequently wrote on Aug. 31, 1999, that "the legislative intent of the statute was to address the Armenian genocide and not to debate whether or not this occurred." Driscoll and Peyser thus made an inherently political decision that reversed the educational judgment of those who thought both sides worthy of being aired. Any time political interference results in censorship of educationally suitable materials, our students lose.
Censorship of materials previously included recalls a 1982 legal tussle arising in the Island Trees Union Free School District in New York State, in which a local school board, under pressure from what the Supreme Court termed "a politically conservative organization of parents," removed from the school library books deemed "anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, and just plain filthy." The court ordered the books reinstated "because we are concerned in this case with the suppression of ideas."
The debate over whether "Armenian Genocide" is a historically accurate designation or an exaggerated and politicized claim has followed the battle lines that mark today's political and cultural landscape. The culture wars are about not only seeing one's beliefs triumph but also depriving competing views of access to the marketplace of ideas. Special-interest groups intolerant of dissent enlist government to endow their side with unimpeachable credibility. On a variety of issues -- from abortion to stem cell research, evolution and "intelligent design" to pornography, the flag pledge to war protest -- the benefits of useful and civil public and academic discussion seem to have been buried under decades of rancor.
It is against this backdrop of a culture eager to censor that our lawsuit attempts to reaffirm a quintessential American value. As Massachusetts native and US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes stated in 1929, "[t]he principle of free thought -- not free thought for those who agree with us, but freedom for the thought that we hate," is arguably the most imperative principle in the US Constitution.
Stranamente, il genocidio armeno è oggetto di vivace dibattito, mentre queste frasi sono considerate reato:
Speaking in Lyon, France, in October 2004, Gollnisch said: "I do not deny the existence of deadly gas chambers. But I'm not a specialist on this issue, and I think we have to let the historians debate it." He did not contest the "hundreds of thousands, the millions of deaths" during the Holocaust, but added: "As to the way those people died, a debate should take place."
Ma non è esattamente la linea di condotta applicata agli armeni? Forse ci sono dei vincoli al dibattito che ci sfuggono. L'attento lettore si chiederà: perché si parla più o meno regolarmente di Palestina, Iraq, Rwanda, e gli armeni finiscono sempre dimenticati in un angolo?
Young Turks
The Young Turks were Turkish, constitutionalist, progressive, partisan, which brought the second constitutional era by a revolution against Abdul Hamid II. The first movement was established among the military students in 1889, and with the official establishment of Committee of Union and Progress (CUP) in 1906, among the other parties, Young Turks become the member of this party. The Young Turk movement built a rich tradition of dissent that shaped the intellectual, political and artistics life of the late Ottoman period (decline, dissolution).
The Three Pashas among the Young Turks from Coup of 1913 until the end of World War I ruled the Ottoman Empire. Young Turks were responsible for orchestrating the Armenian Genocide.
Historical occurrences
In the past groups of Jews and individual Jews have converted to Islam; some voluntarily, some by force, some due to social pressure, and some in hopes of improving prospects for themselves and their families. While those who converted voluntarily have typically lost their identification as Jews, others who converted under various kinds of pressures have sometimes retained a connection to their ethnicity and faith, and some have even eventually returned to Judaism.
In Persia, during the Safavid dynasty of the 16th and 17th centuries, Jews were forced to abandon their religion, proclaim publicly that they had converted to Islam, and were given the name Jadid-al-Islam (New Muslims); in 1661 an edict was issued overturning this forced conversion, and the Jews returned to openly practising Judaism. Similarly, after a pogrom in 1839, the Jews of Mashhad were forced to convert to Islam. They practiced Judaism secretly for over a century before openly returning to their faith; at the turn of the 21st century around 10,000 lived in Israel another 4,000 in New York City, and 1,000 elsewhere.1
In Turkey the claimed messiah Sabbatai Zevi was imprisoned until he converted to Islam in 1666, and was subsequently given a high position in the Sultan's court. A number of his followers converted as well, becoming known as the Donmeh (a Turkish word for a religious convert). While outwardly Muslim, they worshipped Zevi as the Messiah and an incarnation of God. The Donmeh secretly remained Jewish by most definitions, observed certain Jewish rituals, prayed in Hebrew and Aramaic, and celebrated Jewish festivals and fasts. The Donmeh still exist today.
History
While outwardly Muslim, the Donmeh secretly remained Jews, and continued to practice Jewish rituals covertly. They worshipped Sabbatai Zevi as the Messiah and an incarnation of God, observe certain Jewish rituals and pray in Hebrew and Aramaic and secretly celebrate Jewish festivals and fasts. They also observe rituals celebrating Zevi. They interpreted Zevi's conversion in a Kabbalistic way. Zevi had to rescue the bits of God spread among religions by converting to different confessions.
Some of the original Donmeh were Muslims who were converted to Sabbatianism.
There are several branches of the Donmeh. The first was the Ismirli formed in Izmir in what is now Turkey. The second were the Jakubi founded by Jacob Querido, a successor to Zevi who also made messianic claims. Also were the Othman Baba led by Berechia. This group taught Jacob Frank who led the Frankists in 18th century eastern Europe and the fifth were the Lechli who are of Polish descent who lived in exile in Salonika and Constantinople.
While being accepted by the Muslim society, they only married within their own community which ended in several recessive genetical traits being typical of Donmeh.
Several Donmeh were among the Young Turks, Turkish intellectuals who tried to reform the Ottoman Empire. At the time of the interchange of Greek and Turkish populations between Turkey and Greece, the Salonika Donmeh tried to be recognized as not Muslims to avoid forced transport to Anatolia. In the Republican era, they strongly supported the pro-Western and laïque reforms of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, an attitude that bolstered the suspicions of Muslims towards them.
Avete vagamente intuito il motivo misterioso per cui l'armeno finisce sempre spolverato sotto il tappeto?
Si potrebbe andare a guardare i famosi morti del comunismo...
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.
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...ma è così bella l'aria aperta, no?
(il megapost originale ha 158 link, non tirate la giacchetta allo zio Linucs altrimenti cominciamo a sputtanare libri e testimoni a forza di quotidiani...)
Messaggio orinale: https://old.luogocomune.net/site/newbb/viewtopic.php?forum=48&topic_id=1802&post_id=34905