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  •  SirEdward
      SirEdward
Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter
#1
Mi sento vacillare
Iscritto il: 26/6/2006
Da
Messaggi: 611
Offline
Citazione:
-citazione-


SirEdward ha scritto:
-citazione-

-citazione-
Ad esempio qualche minuto
Che le due cose siano collegate è una tua deduzione, non un fatto.
La mancanza di una prova non è una prova di mancanza.



Quindi Mineta è arrivato "qualche minuto prima (delle 9:45)"? A parte il fatto che è un'interpretazione, dato che lo stesso Clarke conferma che l'ordine di evacuazione generale è successivo alle 9:37. Ma se anche fosse come dici tu, come faceva Mineta ad essere nel PEOC poco prima delle 9:27, quando aa77 si trovava a 50 miglia dal Pentagono?
Mineta a quell'ora era in auto. cioè non può aver visto aa77. Dov'è la mancanza di prove?
[...]
Mineta ha affermato di essere passato nella situation room e di esserci rimasto per 4-5 minuti. Se poco prima delle 9:28 era in auto, come diavolo faceva ad essere nel PEOC poco prima delle 9:27?


Sì, ma come fai a dire che a quell'ora Mineta era in auto? Quali sono le prove (e non le tue deduzioni) che ti dicono che alle 9:27 Mineta era in auto?

Se puoi provare che a quell'ora era in auto automaticamente questo invalida la sua deposizione giurata davanti alla 9/11 commission, in cui a domanda diretta ha risposto che l'aereo che seguiva nel PEOC era AA77, the pentagon plane



Che ora era?

1) quando cominciò la teleconferenza?

Qualcuno dice alle 9:10. Qualcuno (la commissione) alle 9:25.

Ora, mentre è effettivamente possibile che 9:25 sia un orario troppo avanzato, è chiaro che 9:10 è troppo anticipato.

Quando Clarke guarda l'orologio dell'auto sono le 9:03. In sette minuti Clarke sarebbe riuscito a rispondere alla telefonata che lo avvertiva del secondo impatto a New York, raggiungere la Casa Bianca, parcheggiare l'auto in qualche modo, raggiungere la West Wing, parlare con la Rice e Cheney,dir loro cosa fare, raggiungere la situation room, ordinare di chiamare tutti i responsabili in giro, attendere che si connettessero e dare ufficialmente il via alla conferenza.

Quanti minuti? Sicuramente 7 non sono abbastanza per tutto questo
Tra l'altro:

Dato numero 1

------------------------

(Between 9:15-9:25 a.m.) September 11, 2001: FAA Head Tells Clarke Videoconference That Flight 11 and 175 Were Hijacked
Edit event

Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke begins a crisis response video conference by asking FAA Administrator Jane Garvey what she knows. Garvey replies, “The two aircraft that went in [to the WTC] were American flight 11, a 767, and United 175, also a 767. Hijacked.” She says that she has put a hold on all takeoffs and landings in New York and Washington, then states, “We have reports of eleven aircraft off course or out of communications.” Clarke and Garvey discuss the feasibility of canceling all takeoffs nationally, and grounding all planes in the air. Garvey says it is possible, but will take time. [Clarke, 2004, pp. 4-5]

---------------------

Probabilmente dopo le 9:20, dato che

(9:26 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Rookie FAA Manager Bans All Take Offs Nationwide, Including Most Military Flights? Mineta Asserts He Issues Order Minutes Later
Edit event

FAA Administrator Jane Garvey. FAA Administrator Jane Garvey. [Source: FAA]Time magazine later reports that Jane Garvey, head of the FAA, “almost certainly after getting an okay from the White House, initiate[s] a national ground stop, which forbids takeoffs and requires planes in the air to get down as soon as is reasonable. The order, which has never been implemented since flying was invented in 1903, applie[s] to virtually every single kind of machine that can takeoff—civilian, military, or law enforcement.” Military and law enforcement flights are allowed to resume at 10:31 a.m. (see 10:31 a.m. September 11, 2001) A limited number of military flights—the FAA will not reveal details—are allowed to fly during this ban. [Time, 9/14/2001] Garvey later calls it “a national ground stop… that prevented any aircraft from taking off.” [US Congress, 9/21/2001] Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta later says he was the one to give the order: “As soon as I was aware of the nature and scale of the attack, I called from the White House to order the air traffic system to land all aircraft, immediately and without exception.” [US Congress. Senate. Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, 9/20/2001] According to Mineta, “At approximately 9:45… I gave the FAA the final order for all civil aircraft to land at the nearest airport as soon as possible.” [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003] At the time, 4,452 planes are flying in the continental US. A later account states that Ben Sliney, the FAA’s National Operations Manager, makes the decision without consulting his superiors, like Jane Garvey, first. It would be remarkable if Sliney was the one to make the decision, because 9/11 is Sliney’s first day on the job as National Operations Manager, “the chess master of the air traffic system.” [USA Today, 8/13/2002] When he accepted the job a couple of months earlier, he had asked, “What is the limit of my authority?” The man who had promoted him replied, “Unlimited.” [USA Today, 8/13/2002] Yet another account, by Linda Schuessler, manager of tactical operations at the FAA Command Center where Sliney was located, says, “… it was done collaboratively… All these decisions were corporate decisions. It wasn’t one person who said, ‘Yes, this has got to get done.’” [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 12/17/2001] About 500 planes land in the next 20 minutes, and then much more urgent orders to land are issued at 9:45 a.m. (see (9:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [Time, 9/14/2001; US Congress, 9/21/2001; Newsday, 9/23/2001; Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/2002; USA Today, 8/13/2002; USA Today, 8/13/2002; Associated Press, 8/19/2002; Newsday, 9/10/2002]

------------------

Probabilmente dopo le 9:21 (per stare mooolto largi) perché Clarke afferma che Jane Garvey gli ha detto di essere in grado di annullare tutti i decolli in "maniera veloce".


Per caso questo stesso brano ci dice quanto Mineta fosse estraneo alle operazioni, dato che dà l'ordine di blocco dei voli alle 9:45, circa 20 minuti dopo!

Ad ogni modo, Mineta ha chiamato "poco dopo" la conversazione con Jane Garvey

Significa, per stare larghi, alle 9:22. E si intrattiene al telefono con Clarke almeno un minuto, a giudicare dalle cose che si dicono.

Ma le parole di Clarke ci dicono che nella mente di Clarke la telefonata di Mineta, l'arrivo di Roger [...] e la successiva chiacchierata con Meyers sono abbastanza in sequenza. La telefonata di Meyers è terminata alle 9:28, probabilmente cominciata, con larghezza, un paio di minuti prima: 9:26.

La telefonata di Mineta arriva quindi, per stare larghi, alle 9:24 (facciamo 9:24:00).

Ma aa77 si trovava a 50 miglia dal pentagono quando non erano nemmeno le 9:27 (per poco).

In tre Minuti Mineta sarebbe riuscito a raggiungere la Casa Bianca, oltre passare i controlli di sicurezza (gli stessi che Clarke racconta a proposito di Roger [...], raggiungere la West Wing, entrare nella situation room (cosa di cui Clarke però non parla) restare 4-5 minuti con Clarke e poi raggiungere la East Wing e scendere nel PEOC. Capirci qualcosa, trovare un telefono, chiamare Belger e farsi aggiornare su un aereo in avvicinamento a Washington in quel momento a 50 miglia?

Se consideriamo anche il fatto che la FAA stava facendo casino tra il volo 77 e il volo 11 e che poco prima dell'impatto non comunica a Clarke il dirottamento di aa77, è evidente che Mineta NON PUO' aver seguito la rotta di aa77 e NEMMENO essersi trovato nel bunker alle 9:27:00.

Inoltre non dimentichiamoci quello che Mineta ha affermato di aver visto al suo arrivo (l'evacuazione in massa dell'Old Executive e della Casa Bianca), e il fatto che sia arrivato dopo Cheney, il cui arrivo è posto DOPO l'impatto di aa77.

Citazione:
-citazione-


Dì, ma ti ricordi cosa ho scritto almeno tre volte? Stiamo cercando di far luce sulla testimonianza di Mineta, dato che si contraddice da solo, e tu usi Mineta come prova contro Cheney?

il tuo si chiama ragionamento circolare.


No, grazie.
Io sto leggendo la versione ufficiale raccontata dal 9/11 commission report.
Lì la dichiarazione giurata di Mineta è stralciata e stravolta.
Sto cercado di capire perchè.
Rileggendo l'intera dichiarazione i casi sono due:
1) O Cheney ha mentito sull'orario di ingresso al pentagono
2) O Mineta ha sbagliato l'orario di ingresso al pentagono, ha confuso AA77 con UA93,


Esatto.
Citazione:
ha confuso la rotta,


Questo è sicuro. L'aereo che dice di aver visto passava per Great Falls. Non è la rotta di aa77.

Citazione:
ha inventato di sana pianta tutti i landmark che gli venivano comunicati via telefono dalla FAA che seguiva l'aereo,


No. Li ha detti tutti giusti. Greeat Falls e Rosslyn.

Citazione:
ma contemporaneamente ha azzeccato per caso nomi di landmark su una rotta verso washington che termina sul pentagono (tra rosslyin e il national ariport), e ha sbagliato a dire che quando s'è perso il contatto con l'aereo ALLO STESSO MOMENTO è stato colpito il pentagono.


Che sia LO STESSO MOMENTO è una tua invenzione. Mineta dice che le parole di chi lo informò furono "abbiamo appena avuto la conferma".

Non è "nello stesso momento". Come abbiamo visto lo stesso Clarke racconta che qualcuno lo avviso di "un'esplosione nel parcheggio del Pentagono (evidentemente aa77, dato che non ci sono stati altri eventi significativi al Pentagono). Clarke ricomincia la telefonata parlando del COG e poco dopo arriva la conferma dell'aereo al Pentagono.
Nel caso del PEOC è lo stesso. Prima sarebbe dovuta arrivare la notizia dell'autobomba, poi quella dell'aereo. O solo quella dell'aereo ma in ritardo. E a piedi.

Non può essere nello stesso momento. E nel racconto di Mineta chi informa dice "abbiamo avuto la conferma", come se la notizia dell'aereo si sapesse già ma mancasse ancora l'ultima conferma. Arrivata in quel momento.

Non è LO STESSO MOMENTO. E' parecchio dopo l'impatto. Tra l'altro Mineta racconta che:

"mentre stavamo parlando, Belger disse "oh no! Ho perso la traccia" è da qualche parte tra Rosslynn e il National. (se fosse stato aa77 avrebbe dovuto ancora compiere l'ultima virata). E uno entra dicendo "un ufficiale di polizia della contea di Arlington ci ha appena confermato.

Non detto. "confermato". E poi, se quanto tempo ci mette un ufficiale di polizia a capire quel che è successo, darsi una mossa, trovare un telefono, chiamare la Casa Bianca e comunicare la cosa? E la notizia per essere portata di persona a Clarke prima e al PEOC poi?

Anche nel racconto di Mineta aa77 si è schiantato PRIMA che Belger perdesse la sua famosa traccia. Nella teoria complottista Belger ha perso la traccia dopo l'impatto, o nello stesso momento, e la notizia è giunta alla velocità della luce alla Casa Bianca. Nella versione del 9/11 commission report, Mineta ha sentito la notizia molto dopo. Dopo lo schianto di ua93. E sul monitor seguiva una rotta simulata, una proiezione di dove ua93 avrebbe potuto essere.
/quote]

Cronologia presa da:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?startpos=2000&timeline=complete_911_timeline
Inviato il: 5/9/2007 11:59
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     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 28/8/2007 1:26
       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 29/8/2007 21:41
       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 29/8/2007 22:21
     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Tubo 28/8/2007 2:38
       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Redazione 28/8/2007 8:27
         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 28/8/2007 11:45
           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter LaoTzu 28/8/2007 17:08
             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Redazione 28/8/2007 22:42
               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 28/8/2007 23:59
                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sandman 29/8/2007 0:36
                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 29/8/2007 1:29
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sandman 29/8/2007 10:04
                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 29/8/2007 11:20
             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 29/8/2007 0:15
             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter fobos 16/7/2008 20:49
               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Stefo 10/3/2009 13:04
                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter czar 10/3/2009 13:51
                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter czar 10/3/2009 14:13
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Stefo 10/3/2009 17:14
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 11/3/2009 2:10
                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Fabyan 21/3/2009 17:19
                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Stefo 1/4/2009 12:07
     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Tubo 29/8/2007 22:48
       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 30/8/2007 11:30
         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 30/8/2007 12:10
           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 30/8/2007 12:34
             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 30/8/2007 14:57
             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 30/8/2007 20:54
               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 30/8/2007 21:42
                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 31/8/2007 1:01
                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 31/8/2007 10:05
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 31/8/2007 11:36
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 31/8/2007 11:37
                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 31/8/2007 13:59
                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 31/8/2007 19:09
                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sandman 31/8/2007 21:40
                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 31/8/2007 21:59
                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 31/8/2007 22:07
                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 31/8/2007 21:53
               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 30/8/2007 21:44
                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 30/8/2007 21:52
                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 30/8/2007 22:47
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 31/8/2007 9:40
       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 30/8/2007 13:36
         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 30/8/2007 15:13
           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 30/8/2007 15:27
             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 30/8/2007 15:42
               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 30/8/2007 15:44
                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 30/8/2007 17:53
           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 30/8/2007 18:33
             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 30/8/2007 20:04
               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 30/8/2007 20:31
             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 30/8/2007 21:37
               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 1/9/2007 1:23
                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 2:29
                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 1/9/2007 8:54
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 1/9/2007 10:12
                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 1/9/2007 10:24
                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 10:58
                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 1/9/2007 11:17
                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 11:28
                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 1/9/2007 11:48
                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 1/9/2007 12:12
                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 12:56
                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 12:47
                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 1/9/2007 13:07
                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 1/9/2007 13:33
                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 13:52
                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 1/9/2007 19:33
                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 1/9/2007 20:02
                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 21:09
                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 1/9/2007 21:29
                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 12:47
                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 2/9/2007 13:32
                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 2/9/2007 14:34
                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 15:23
                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 2/9/2007 15:31
                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 16:08
                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 2/9/2007 16:16
                                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 16:53
                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 2/9/2007 18:34
                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 2/9/2007 18:42
                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 19:39
                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 2/9/2007 20:12
                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 2/9/2007 20:18
                                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 20:41
                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 14:52
                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 2/9/2007 15:57
                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 16:48
                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 2/9/2007 17:30
                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 19:28
                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 3/9/2007 13:02
                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 3/9/2007 13:22
                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 3/9/2007 13:33
                                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 3/9/2007 13:53
                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 3/9/2007 14:30
                                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 3/9/2007 14:40
                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Jimbo72 3/9/2007 15:25
                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 3/9/2007 15:57
                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Freeman 3/9/2007 16:53
                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 3/9/2007 20:18
                                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 3/9/2007 22:25
                                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 0:41
                                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 1:17
                                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 4/9/2007 3:54
                                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 4/9/2007 7:40
                                                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 10:20
                                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 4/9/2007 10:29
                                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 10:47
                                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 4/9/2007 10:30
                                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 10:50
                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 3/9/2007 17:14
                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 3/9/2007 20:16
                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 2/9/2007 16:10
                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 2/9/2007 16:31
                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 16:58
                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 16:49
                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 2/9/2007 17:31
                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 19:36
                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 13:45
                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 1/9/2007 14:01
                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 14:32
                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 1/9/2007 14:35
                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 14:53
                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 1/9/2007 15:16
                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 20:23
                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 1/9/2007 21:52
                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 2/9/2007 12:52
                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 1/9/2007 17:17
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 1/9/2007 21:01
     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Freeman 3/9/2007 0:30
       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 3/9/2007 13:37
         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 3/9/2007 13:47
           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 3/9/2007 13:56
             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 3/9/2007 19:20
               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 3/9/2007 20:30
                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 3/9/2007 21:20
                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 3/9/2007 21:44
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 3/9/2007 21:55
                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 3/9/2007 22:24
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 0:34
                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 0:30
                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 4/9/2007 8:59
                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 4/9/2007 10:35
                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 10:58
                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 4/9/2007 11:07
                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 11:12
                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 4/9/2007 11:26
                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 4/9/2007 11:33
                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 11:36
                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 4/9/2007 13:13
                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 4/9/2007 13:38
                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 14:14
                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 4/9/2007 14:44
                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 4/9/2007 14:54
                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 15:50
                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 4/9/2007 16:15
                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 4/9/2007 16:25
                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 19:40
                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 4/9/2007 19:45
                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 19:17
                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 5/9/2007 11:14
                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 5/9/2007 11:47
                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 5/9/2007 12:21
                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 5/9/2007 12:32
                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 5/9/2007 12:41
                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 5/9/2007 12:42
                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 5/9/2007 12:52
                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 5/9/2007 13:03
                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 5/9/2007 13:18
                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 5/9/2007 13:29
                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 5/9/2007 20:26
                                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 5/9/2007 22:31
                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 6/9/2007 13:29
                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 6/9/2007 14:18
                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 6/9/2007 14:38
                                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ivanvox 6/9/2007 14:43
                                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 6/9/2007 22:15
                                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter maxgallo 7/9/2007 0:33
                                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 7/9/2007 11:52
                                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 7/9/2007 13:40
                                                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 7/9/2007 14:44
                                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 7/9/2007 14:49
                                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 7/9/2007 15:13
                                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 7/9/2007 15:19
                                                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gandalf 7/9/2007 15:40
                                                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 7/9/2007 19:35
                                                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Bambooboy 8/9/2007 1:01
                                                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Albert 12/9/2007 17:51
                                                                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 12/9/2007 22:04
                                                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter lonegunmen 13/9/2007 11:23
                                                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Albert 13/9/2007 15:08
                                                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Albert 13/9/2007 16:00
                                                                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 13/9/2007 19:23
                                                                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter rivers 13/9/2007 21:13
                                                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter hi-speed 14/9/2007 13:11
                                                                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Albert 14/9/2007 15:04
                                                                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Teba 14/9/2007 21:12
                                                                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Albert 15/9/2007 18:42
                                                                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Teba 16/9/2007 3:40
                                                                                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Albert 25/9/2007 14:42
                                                                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Maury3 25/9/2007 18:49
                                                                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Teba 25/9/2007 23:32
                                                                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter TomTom 10/10/2007 14:02
                                                                                                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter gobbo 10/10/2007 14:56
                                                                                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter maxgallo 10/10/2007 17:43
                                                                                                                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter hi-speed 10/10/2007 18:22
                                                                                                                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Albert 12/10/2007 12:26
                                                                                                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Teba 12/10/2007 12:51
                                                                                                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Albert 12/10/2007 18:39
                                                                                                                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter ahmbar 14/10/2007 17:50
                                                                                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Albert 17/10/2007 16:04
                                                                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Teba 14/10/2007 17:31
                                                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 7/9/2007 12:55
                                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 5/9/2007 12:42
                                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 5/9/2007 12:07
                                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 5/9/2007 13:24
                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 14:19
                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter complo 4/9/2007 14:53
                                     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 15:22
                       Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 10:46
                         Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 4/9/2007 12:30
                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Ashoka 4/9/2007 12:58
                           Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 14:04
                             Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 4/9/2007 16:24
                               Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 4/9/2007 19:27
                                 Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter Sertes 5/9/2007 9:09
                                   Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter SirEdward 5/9/2007 11:59
     Re: The last word on the 911 Pentagon matter fobos 16/7/2008 20:34
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